Mouthpiece Facings Options

[clarijo]

Can anyone give me a simple 'lesson' on mouthpiece facings? I think I've got to grips with the basics of tip openings and different reed strengths determining resistance, tone etc etc but it's less clear to me what effect the length of the facing has.

My clarinet mouthpiece has a very close lay (Selmer HS*), which I think is a 100. On the other hand, my tenor sax mouthpiece (Hite Premiere) is a 0.90 or a 6, depending on which chart you're looking at - not helpful that one is metric and one imperial but there we go!

I know they are different instruments with different embouchures etc but I've been playing clarinet for much longer than sax and yet, the clarinet mp seems very close and the sax seems quite open, for a relative beginner.

However, I've discovered that the factor that they both have in common is that they both have quite a long facing. My fave clarinet reeds are the Reeds Australia Vintage XLs and on sax I like Rico La Voz. I understand that these are thick cut reeds but I'm not entirely sure what that means - only that they suit mouthpieces with a longer facing.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm now playing a different clarinet to the one I had when I bought the Selmer mouthpiece and I'm not sure it suits me on this instrument as well as it did on my student Yamaha - dare I say it?! I think it might be time to go mouthpiece shopping again!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[barry-clari]

You'd like simple?

Here we go then!

Obviously other aspects do come into play, but as a rule, long facing length = harder reed, short facing length = softer reed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[clarijo]

You'd like simple?

Here we go then!

Obviously other aspects do come into play, but as a rule, long facing length = harder reed, short facing length = softer reed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yep simple is good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What about the effect on sound? I'm thinking that I want to stay with the longer facing but perhaps with a slightly wider tip opening. I want a dark sound but not too stuffy. For some reason, to my ears at least, the Selmer now sounds a little bright - though I know that the 'rules' say that it shouldn't!

My (limited) experience so far is of a Yamaha 6c, a Vandoren B40L and for a short time, a B45. I switched to the Selmer because it darkened my sound, improved the tuning and generally felt better - it's an older one and I think this may be largely down to whatever it's made from. However, I'm now playing a Leblanc Sonata and actually prefer the (unmarked) and probably not very good mouthpiece which came with it, which makes me think that it might be time to try some different mouthpieces again. I'm just trying to narrow down what I'm actually looking for - not easy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[barry-clari]

Yep simple is good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What about the effect on sound? I'm thinking that I want to stay with the longer facing but perhaps with a slightly wider tip opening. I want a dark sound but not too stuffy. For some reason, to my ears at least, the Selmer now sounds a little bright - though I know that the 'rules' say that it shouldn't!

This is why I'm very sceptical about the 'rules', as you put it, as we're all individual. I would try mouthpieces which roughly conform to wide tip/long facing, but be very flexible. Your thoughts are pretty accurate, following the mouthpiece 'rules'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[clarijo]

Yep simple is good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What about the effect on sound? I'm thinking that I want to stay with the longer facing but perhaps with a slightly wider tip opening. I want a dark sound but not too stuffy. For some reason, to my ears at least, the Selmer now sounds a little bright - though I know that the 'rules' say that it shouldn't!

This is why I'm very sceptical about the 'rules', as you put it, as we're all individual. I would try mouthpieces which roughly conform to wide tip/long facing, but be very flexible. Your thoughts are pretty accurate, following the mouthpiece 'rules'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks Barry - I've never been keen on 'rules' anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sbhoa]

Yep simple is good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What about the effect on sound? I'm thinking that I want to stay with the longer facing but perhaps with a slightly wider tip opening. I want a dark sound but not too stuffy. For some reason, to my ears at least, the Selmer now sounds a little bright - though I know that the 'rules' say that it shouldn't!

This is why I'm very sceptical about the 'rules', as you put it, as we're all individual. I would try mouthpieces which roughly conform to wide tip/long facing, but be very flexible. Your thoughts are pretty accurate, following the mouthpiece 'rules'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks Barry - I've never been keen on 'rules' anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My M30 is medium tip long facing according to the charts.
Recommended reed strength appears to be 3.5 and up.
I'm currently playing on a 2.5 Rue Lepic and getting a respectable sound. Tried 3s from time to time. The Rue Lepics are definitely much too hard for me right now and the Rico Reserves are okish but I lose the clarity so not moving on reed strength just yet. Will have to see if I do need to some time in the future.

[clarijo]

Yep simple is good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What about the effect on sound? I'm thinking that I want to stay with the longer facing but perhaps with a slightly wider tip opening. I want a dark sound but not too stuffy. For some reason, to my ears at least, the Selmer now sounds a little bright - though I know that the 'rules' say that it shouldn't!

This is why I'm very sceptical about the 'rules', as you put it, as we're all individual. I would try mouthpieces which roughly conform to wide tip/long facing, but be very flexible. Your thoughts are pretty accurate, following the mouthpiece 'rules'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks Barry - I've never been keen on 'rules' anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My M30 is medium tip long facing according to the charts.
Recommended reed strength appears to be 3.5 and up.
I'm currently playing on a 2.5 Rue Lepic and getting a respectable sound. Tried 3s from time to time. The Rue Lepics are definitely much too hard for me right now and the Rico Reserves are okish but I lose the clarity so not moving on reed strength just yet. Will have to see if I do need to some time in the future.

Thanks, sbhoa - I'm considering anything up to a 5RV tip opening (or equivalent) and the M30 was on my list of possibles.

The Rue Lepic 3s are too hard for me too - far too much work and impossible to articulate properly. I certainly can't imagine playing on anything stronger!

[Tequila]

I'm going to enjoy following this thread as mouthpiece "shopping" is on my to do list as well.... whether it is actual shopping or just trying a lot out will depend on the sounds made .....

I've had my 5RV for around 20-25 years now I think. I still love the sound it makes but am wondering if it's time to try a new one as mine has some signs of wear around the tip and just occasionally I'm not getting what I want from my playing sound wise.

Reading a brochure recently it suggested trying the same model but brand new mouthpiece fairly frequently so that you could tell if yours was wearing out, had changed sound through use etc... So I'm going to start with this and experiment a bit.

I like the sound description of the Vandoren B40 dot, or maybe lyre mouthpiece. Have tried and not been too keen on the B45 previously but it was the profile 88 rather than traditional beak so could be worth another try. I'm open to suggestion on brand and model as I too find all the specs a bit confusing and rather daunting.

I use Woodwind Exchange in Bradford and the people there are very knowledgeable and able to advise. Incidently, they now also sell reeds at Reeds Direct Prices and if you are buying enough (in my case 10) you are able to mix and match ... I bought 10 Rue lepics but in different strengths 3 and 3.5.

Rather liking the strength of the 3.5s at present though they take a touch more blowing in.

A randomish thought ..... could be a silly one though .... Clarijo since you are fairly near me .... maybe we could look together and provide each other with a second opinion???? Though we may both have different "ears" and aims for the sound we are after .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Devonclari]

I've recently changed to the M30 lyre but find that I use a slightly softer reed than the charts recommend, don't use can very often but when I do it's a V12 3. Personally I find the very open mouthpieces like B45 difficult to control and I cannot make a nice sound with them. The M30 lyre has a shorter lay than the standard M30 but I found little difference between the sound of these two but the lyre slightly more comfortable to play. Has anyone had experience of the new Vandoren masters mouthpieces? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

[clarijo]

I'm going to enjoy following this thread as mouthpiece "shopping" is on my to do list as well.... whether it is actual shopping or just trying a lot out will depend on the sounds made .....

I've had my 5RV for around 20-25 years now I think. I still love the sound it makes but am wondering if it's time to try a new one as mine has some signs of wear around the tip and just occasionally I'm not getting what I want from my playing sound wise.

Reading a brochure recently it suggested trying the same model but brand new mouthpiece fairly frequently so that you could tell if yours was wearing out, had changed sound through use etc... So I'm going to start with this and experiment a bit.

I like the sound description of the Vandoren B40 dot, or maybe lyre mouthpiece. Have tried and not been too keen on the B45 previously but it was the profile 88 rather than traditional beak so could be worth another try. I'm open to suggestion on brand and model as I too find all the specs a bit confusing and rather daunting.

I use Woodwind Exchange in Bradford and the people there are very knowledgeable and able to advise. Incidently, they now also sell reeds at Reeds Direct Prices and if you are buying enough (in my case 10) you are able to mix and match ... I bought 10 Rue lepics but in different strengths 3 and 3.5.

Rather liking the strength of the 3.5s at present though they take a touch more blowing in.

A randomish thought ..... could be a silly one though .... Clarijo since you are fairly near me .... maybe we could look together and provide each other with a second opinion???? Though we may both have different "ears" and aims for the sound we are after .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I would definitely be up for a shopping trip and you are welcome to use my ears!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Having heard you play, I think we probably like a similar sound.

I would prefer to have some mouthpieces to try out and 'get to know' at home, rather than buying in a shop but that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in trying some out anyway! I am coming to York (sorry Barry - promise to get the form off this week!!) so perhaps we can sort something out then? As you know, I'm tied up during the week and now have band on Saturday mornings but that's only during term time.

I'm not ruling out Vandoren mouthpieces at all but there are some other makes which I'm also interested in at lieast considering - do they have quite a good selection at Woodwind Exchange? I'm not sure about Banks - get the impression that's it's quite limited. There's Scheerers in Leeds and a Dawsons has just opened too but again, I'm not sure what the selection will be like... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Louise (or indeed anyone else nearby!) are you interested in this too? Perhaps we could have a forum trip?!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

[Halka]

Thanks, sbhoa - I'm considering anything up to a 5RV tip opening (or equivalent) and the M30 was on my list of possibles.

The Rue Lepic 3s are too hard for me too - far too much work and impossible to articulate properly. I certainly can't imagine playing on anything stronger!

Daughter plays an M30 with Vandoren V12 3.5 reed. Like you she finds Rue Lepics too hard at any of the strengths she's tried (3? quite some time ago).

Her clarinet (second hand R13) tends to play a bit flat - to the extent that we had to buy a new extra short barrel for it before her grade 7. When I discussed this over the phone with someone at Dawkes they felt this was unlikely to be a clarinet problem but might be something to do with her relative inexperience and the longish facing on the M30.... but they haven't seen her clarinet or heard her play.

To my ears her set up is rather bright. She started with a B45, but switched to the M30 about 3 years ago now, when still a relative beginner playing a different clarinet, because it improved her sound immediately and was easier to blow. Although I keep thinking we ought to go mouth piece shopping in the hope that there's something out there that will transform her sound into the melted chocolate I crave, I suspect in her case, at least, lots more practice might actually be what's needed!

[saxophile]

I'm not ruling out Vandoren mouthpieces at all but there are some other makes which I'm also interested in at lieast considering - do they have quite a good selection at Woodwind Exchange? I'm not sure about Banks - get the impression that's it's quite limited. There's Scheerers in Leeds and a Dawsons has just opened too but again, I'm not sure what the selection will be like... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Louise (or indeed anyone else nearby!) are you interested in this too? Perhaps we could have a forum trip?!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

I don't know about clarinet, but my sax teacher has definitely recommended Woodwind Exchange for sax mouthpieces (he got his own from there, and spent about a whole day whittling down the choice).

A forum woodwind mouthpiece shopping trip - now there's a thought! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Though I have been telling myself that I need to go down the "lots of practice" route instead of assuming that spending (more) money is the answer... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[sbhoa]

I got my M30 from woodwind exchange and they were very helpful.
Having said that I'm not sure I'd go again if shopping for a mouthpiece.
When I had my first mouthpiece upgrade I was able to meet b-c in London and we went to Howarths.
They had a wider range of mouthpieces where woodwind exchange had almost all Vandoren mouthpieces.
I began with a 5RV which came with my Hanson clarinet. After that I had a Hite D for about 2 1/2 years.
The move to the M30 was made when my teacher thought I needed something with more depth and flexibility.

[clarijo]

I got my M30 from woodwind exchange and they were very helpful.
Having said that I'm not sure I'd go again if shopping for a mouthpiece.
When I had my first mouthpiece upgrade I was able to meet b-c in London and we went to Howarths.
They had a wider range of mouthpieces where woodwind exchange had almost all Vandoren mouthpieces.
I began with a 5RV which came with my Hanson clarinet. After that I had a Hite D for about 2 1/2 years.
The move to the M30 was made when my teacher thought I needed something with more depth and flexibility.

I've found the Howarth's mouthpiece chart really helpful and if it were more practical for me to get there, I think they would be my first stop, actually. I'm not sure whether they would send mouthpieces on approval but I may give them a ring and ask.

I think I'm most likely to get on with the mouthpieces in their close or medium close sections - the B40L, B45 and Yamaha 6c, which I've had previously and discarded, all fall into the medium open section on their chart, whereas my current HS* falls into the close section. It was actually the M15, not the M30 which I'd been looking at but will bear the M30 in mind anyway!

I have a shortlist of makes I want to try but there are at least two or three models I want to try within that, so my search may be a long one!

[Devonclari]

I got my M30 from woodwind exchange and they were very helpful.
Having said that I'm not sure I'd go again if shopping for a mouthpiece.
When I had my first mouthpiece upgrade I was able to meet b-c in London and we went to Howarths.
They had a wider range of mouthpieces where woodwind exchange had almost all Vandoren mouthpieces.
I began with a 5RV which came with my Hanson clarinet. After that I had a Hite D for about 2 1/2 years.
The move to the M30 was made when my teacher thought I needed something with more depth and flexibility.

I've found the Howarth's mouthpiece chart really helpful and if it were more practical for me to get there, I think they would be my first stop, actually. I'm not sure whether they would send mouthpieces on approval but I may give them a ring and ask.

I think I'm most likely to get on with the mouthpieces in their close or medium close sections - the B40L, B45 and Yamaha 6c, which I've had previously and discarded, all fall into the medium open section on their chart, whereas my current HS* falls into the close section. It was actually the M15, not the M30 which I'd been looking at but will bear the M30 in mind anyway!

I have a shortlist of makes I want to try but there are at least two or three models I want to try within that, so my search may be a long one!

Howarths will definitely send them on approval but I'm not sure how many they will let you have at once, I've had 3 on trial at once from them before