Random Thoughts Or Comments, when you don't know where else to post Options

[Celeste]

I think it's something about the point at which a baby can identify itself in the mirror, *before* it can put a word to it. So, it's seeing 'me' but doesn't know what 'me' is and doesn't associate it with what it's seeing... if that makes any sense!

[Babybird2]

I think it's something about the point at which a baby can identify itself in the mirror, *before* it can put a word to it. So, it's seeing 'me' but doesn't know what 'me' is and doesn't associate it with what it's seeing... if that makes any sense!

That makes sense - why couldn't they just write that in the first place?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[lucky045]

I think it's something about the point at which a baby can identify itself in the mirror, *before* it can put a word to it. So, it's seeing 'me' but doesn't know what 'me' is and doesn't associate it with what it's seeing... if that makes any sense!

Oooh ok, actually now you mention it, that does make sense... So that's why it's like an intermediate stage before language acquisition... Thank you!

But then, I'm confused because the way I understood it, the Real (the impossible to verbalise world of need/instinct etc) was traumatic when it infringed on the Symbolic Order (the world of social rules etc after language acquisition), so even though the Real is always there, you can't be conscious of the two at the same time... kind of... but then this seems like an intermediate stage between the two when you are conscious of both worlds?! SO confused, you wouldn't think I'd been reading this stuff all holiday.

Lottie - what's wrong with a Masters in English? I plan to do one too, eventually. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I haven't read any Derrida - he's the deconstruction one, right? So many people have told me I must read some though, so I'll have to soon. Sounds interesting.
Though maybe then I will actually understand this stuff.

[lottie]

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'. It is the aquisition of knowledge and awareness that corrupts this state (although this happens soon after birth rather than at the 'mirror' stage) but that the corruption is traumatic, inevitable (Symbolic Order) and irreversible (we can forget but not 'un-learn' knowledge).

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Oh there's nothing wrong with having a degree in English - I had a fantastic time being a student and adored the subject (and even went on to a PhD (which I couldn't finish due to illness.. long story)).

A degree in English is such a fascinating education in cultural, philosophical, political, historical, theoretical and social awareness too that it's a great opening for all sorts of jobs in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Solari]

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'.

I ponder the whole "consciousness" thing quite a lot, and the only conclusion I can reach is that ignorance must be bliss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Roseau]

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Because they're French (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
I wrote my thesis in French and my supervisor was worried that my language was too simple. She kept suggesting I make the sentences longer and more complicated but since French is not my mother tongue I just couldn't do it. When I got the external examiners' reports they both praised my "clear" expression and during the viva commented that it was one of the nicest theses they had ever had to read because they hadn't had to read every sentence at least twice to understand what I meant.

[lucky045]

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'. It is the aquisition of knowledge and awareness that corrupts this state (although this happens soon after birth rather than at the 'mirror' stage) but that the corruption is traumatic, inevitable (Symbolic Order) and irreversible (we can forget but not 'un-learn' knowledge).

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Oh there's nothing wrong with having a degree in English - I had a fantastic time being a student and adored the subject (and even went on to a PhD (which I couldn't finish due to illness.. long story)).

A degree in English is such a fascinating education in cultural, philosophical, political, historical, theoretical and social awareness too that it's a great opening for all sorts of jobs in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I certainly hope so - I'm aiming to get a PhD in English. I want to be a lecturer/researcher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
Is that 'state of being' what Lacan calls the Real? My essay is kind of arguing that Carter rewrites Lacan, allowing her heroines to break the limits of the Symbolic Order by developing the Mirror Stage into a mode of self-identification without outside influence, which lets them re-enter the Real... Kind of... reversing the irreversible.
It sounds insane when I write it like that, hopefully my argument will be a bit more convincing.

[barry-clari]

Forgotten how good 'March of the Mods' was...they've just played it on the radio (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[BerkshireMum]

Forgotten how good 'March of the Mods' was...they've just played it on the radio (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Love the change of subject, Barry! I was just feeling distinctly out of my depth on having read Lucy's post, so it was quite a relief to actually understand yours! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Flossie]

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'. It is the aquisition of knowledge and awareness that corrupts this state (although this happens soon after birth rather than at the 'mirror' stage) but that the corruption is traumatic, inevitable (Symbolic Order) and irreversible (we can forget but not 'un-learn' knowledge).

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Oh there's nothing wrong with having a degree in English - I had a fantastic time being a student and adored the subject (and even went on to a PhD (which I couldn't finish due to illness.. long story)).

A degree in English is such a fascinating education in cultural, philosophical, political, historical, theoretical and social awareness too that it's a great opening for all sorts of jobs in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I certainly hope so - I'm aiming to get a PhD in English. I want to be a lecturer/researcher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
Is that 'state of being' what Lacan calls the Real? My essay is kind of arguing that Carter rewrites Lacan, allowing her heroines to break the limits of the Symbolic Order by developing the Mirror Stage into a mode of self-identification without outside influence, which lets them re-enter the Real... Kind of... reversing the irreversible.
It sounds insane when I write it like that, hopefully my argument will be a bit more convincing.

That makes sense, Lucky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You've actually summed up your argument well there - make sure you sum it up as clearly and concisely as possible in the intro and conclusion to your essay as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[barry-clari]

Forgotten how good 'March of the Mods' was...they've just played it on the radio (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Love the change of subject, Barry! I was just feeling distinctly out of my depth on having read Lucy's post, so it was quite a relief to actually understand yours! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Once listened to...stuck in your brain for ages... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[madbassoonist]

These are Mozartkugeln. Bit like Marmite - love them or hate them. You can't go into a chocolate shop or gift shop in Austria without being bombarded with Mozartkugeln in all their varieties.

Yep, that's what I mean Flossie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A friend brought some back from Vienna for my family. Very yummy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[lottie]

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'. It is the aquisition of knowledge and awareness that corrupts this state (although this happens soon after birth rather than at the 'mirror' stage) but that the corruption is traumatic, inevitable (Symbolic Order) and irreversible (we can forget but not 'un-learn' knowledge).

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Oh there's nothing wrong with having a degree in English - I had a fantastic time being a student and adored the subject (and even went on to a PhD (which I couldn't finish due to illness.. long story)).

A degree in English is such a fascinating education in cultural, philosophical, political, historical, theoretical and social awareness too that it's a great opening for all sorts of jobs in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I certainly hope so - I'm aiming to get a PhD in English. I want to be a lecturer/researcher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
Is that 'state of being' what Lacan calls the Real? My essay is kind of arguing that Carter rewrites Lacan, allowing her heroines to break the limits of the Symbolic Order by developing the Mirror Stage into a mode of self-identification without outside influence, which lets them re-enter the Real... Kind of... reversing the irreversible.
It sounds insane when I write it like that, hopefully my argument will be a bit more convincing.

You should also check out Julia Kristeva and theory of the semiotic (infantile pre-Oedipal).. maybe not relevant to your essay but I think it's very interesting in relation to Carter and the pre-'symbolic order'. I think a lot of Carter's fiction explores this status and also abjection and intertextuality.

(mmm cranky and rusty old wheels turning in my brain there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I'm really more Winnie-the-Pooh these days (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) )

[eldatom]

Forgotten how good 'March of the Mods' was...they've just played it on the radio (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Oh I used to love that!

[Flossie]

It's interesting how we have two separate conversations running here - one on Lacan etc and one on the march. I wonder what Derrida and Deleuze would say about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The part I found fascinating about the 'mirror stage' theory is that there is a 'state of being' which is pre-language and pre-awareness that some writers consider as a state of something I can only simplify as 'floating joy'. It is the aquisition of knowledge and awareness that corrupts this state (although this happens soon after birth rather than at the 'mirror' stage) but that the corruption is traumatic, inevitable (Symbolic Order) and irreversible (we can forget but not 'un-learn' knowledge).

For more on this try Helene Cixous and Julia Kristeva... but be warned.. lots of big words in very long lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (And I could never see why they didn't just use straight forward language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) .)

Oh there's nothing wrong with having a degree in English - I had a fantastic time being a student and adored the subject (and even went on to a PhD (which I couldn't finish due to illness.. long story)).

A degree in English is such a fascinating education in cultural, philosophical, political, historical, theoretical and social awareness too that it's a great opening for all sorts of jobs in the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I certainly hope so - I'm aiming to get a PhD in English. I want to be a lecturer/researcher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
Is that 'state of being' what Lacan calls the Real? My essay is kind of arguing that Carter rewrites Lacan, allowing her heroines to break the limits of the Symbolic Order by developing the Mirror Stage into a mode of self-identification without outside influence, which lets them re-enter the Real... Kind of... reversing the irreversible.
It sounds insane when I write it like that, hopefully my argument will be a bit more convincing.

You should also check out Julia Kristeva and theory of the semiotic (infantile pre-Oedipal).. maybe not relevant to your essay but I think it's very interesting in relation to Carter and the pre-'symbolic order'. I think a lot of Carter's fiction explores this status and also abjection and intertextuality.

(mmm cranky and rusty old wheels turning in my brain there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I'm really more Winnie-the-Pooh these days (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) )

There's also Elizabeth Groz and Moira Gatens as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)