Slurred Staccatos Options

[pianodub]

I've always referred to them as "detached notes" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A very sensible move I think! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[maledictis]

I've always referred to them as "detached notes" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A very sensible move I think! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Why thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cat Lover]

Referring to staccato again, how are you meant to play staccato with the sustain pedal depressed. I've come accross many pieces where pedal is to be pressed and staccato dots are used, the sustain pedal stops the notes sounding detatched! any thoughts?

[Mad Tom]

Referring to staccato again, how are you meant to play staccato with the sustain pedal depressed. I've come accross many pieces where pedal is to be pressed and staccato dots are used, the sustain pedal stops the notes sounding detatched! any thoughts?

This has often worried me. (Did I hear calls of "get a life" ?)

No-one I speak to me can give me a rational explanation, and I have yet to see a book that deals with the issue. We are frequently told to be faithful to the score, but some scores are impossible.

Chopin and Debussy are major culprits.

I think, in Debussy's case, he uses notation to express the precise sound he would like if only it were possible for the instrument to realize it. It is then up to the performer/interpreter to figure out how to get as close as possible.

Chopin is more problematical.

[Czerny]

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but when you play staccato with the sustain pedal depressed it creates a different sound to simply holding down the note - a 'bell-like' timbre. I've seen this effect used in several pieces where the sound of a bell is what the composer is trying to create (made clear by either the title or the explanatory blurb).

I don't know if this would apply specifically to Debussy or Chopin, but there's certainly a perceptible difference in tone quality.

[Mad Tom]

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but when you play staccato with the sustain pedal depressed it creates a different sound to simply holding down the note - a 'bell-like' timbre. I've seen this effect used in several pieces where the sound of a bell is what the composer is trying to create (made clear by either the title or the explanatory blurb).

I don't know if this would apply specifically to Debussy or Chopin, but there's certainly a perceptible difference in tone quality.

This is true - but the difference comes from using a sharper attack - not from the earlier release. Just as, without pedal you can make a stacatto with a woodwind-like sound or a trumpety sound.

The problematic cases are where it is not clear how long the composer wanted the note to last. Did he want a different tone colour, or a shorter note, or both?

I guess the interpreter must first decide whether the score is intended to be precise instructions in movement of the fingers - in which case we just do as indicated, and see what effects we get - or indications of an idealized sound in the composer's mind, in which case we decide for ourselves what we will do to achieve it.

Trouble is most scores are sometimes one thing, sometimes the other, and composers often use identical notation for different intended effects.

[Undine]

I'm a new member on the forums, and have been following this thread with interest. I was remembering when I first came across staccato signs under a slur - it was the Arrieu Sonatine for flute. My (Dutch) teacher told me this was called "portato", a term used by string players, and should be played as tongued legato. She said that portato meant "carrying (the music) forward".

I also remember coming across it at one of Trevor Wye's International Summer School sessions in the 80s. Referring to the first phrase of the Faure Fantasie for flute, it was described as "portato" and also as "bell notes" We learnt that on each note there should be a little crescendo/diminuendo with vibrato, imitating a bell, and that each note should be tongued but joined to the next with the idea of moving the music forwards.

In the AB Guide to Music Theory Part 1, pp84 and 85, there is a discussion of it which shows a small degree of separation between such notes, a semi-quaver rest between each dotted quaver. For string players it says "string players will readily understand this as two separate notes played in one bow; pianists and others should also reiterate the second note".

Practically speaking, if it's a fast piece with slurred staccato I generally advise tongued legato, but for slower pieces teach bell notes. How do other people teach it?

[miss music maker]

I believe that there is recordings of all the grade pieces. Listen to the CD performance and try to copy that perhaps.

[chocolatedog]

if I can put my pedant's hat on for a moment ...

mezzo?/ three-quarters?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Would dotted mezzo be better?

What, you mean a singer with chicken pox????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)