How Fast Do You Take Various Anthems? Options

[Teigr]

Are there any particular anthems that you've noticed taken at very different speeds in different places? How fast do you take them yourself?
Are there any anthems that you choose to take at a different speed to what might be regarded as typical?

I noticed the other day that the three recordings I have of the Lotti Crucifixus are quite different. New College Oxford comes in at 2:57, Westminster Cathedral at 3:34 and St Paul's Cathedral at 4:05. So, out of idle curiosity, I timed it during rehearsal today and reckon it ran about 3:45. During Evensong we brought it in at around 2:50. (I know, I shouldn't have been timing it during the service!)

A quick poke around iTunes shows Victoria 'O Magnum Mysterium' at both 2:31 and 4:01, while Byrd 'Ave Verum' is rather more consistent at 4:22, 4:33 and 4:41, as is Tallis 'If ye love me' at 2:17 and 2:28.
Parry 'I was glad' comes in at anything from 4:41 to 7:43. Wesley 'Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace' seems to have two distinct schools of thought, with run times of 3:45, 3:46, 4:12 and 4:18.

Anyone got any recordings of anything that you think are a lot slower or faster than average? Or ones where several different places take something at more or less the same speed?
I'd be interested to see which things have the most and least variation in run times.

T.

[mrbouffant]

Acoustics can make a huge difference. In a small church you can hurry along without losing any of the detail you would if you did it at the same speed in a cathedral.

[Teigr]

Acoustics can make a huge difference. In a small church you can hurry along without losing any of the detail you would if you did it at the same speed in a cathedral.

Good point. But a lot of the recordings I was looking at the runtimes for are of cathedral choirs, most of them from big cathedrals. Some anthems seem to be taken at about the same speed, regardless of location, while others vary a lot from place to place (or even between different recordings from the same place).

T.

[daveinnorfolk]

I was Glad can vary depending on if it is sung in 'full' or not. Some recordings will not have the 'Vivat Regina' middle section, whereas others will. (My understanding is that this is only meant to be sung with monarchy in attendance, as then it becomes a 'simple' psalm anthem)

I have heard many recordings that take thou wilt keep him too slow, especially on the section 'the darkness is no darkness with thee' in the bass and tenor

Remember of course, that the metronome was not around prior to Beethoven so works that pre-date him often have no definite tempo written down, and it can come down to how the DOM was taught the anthem

[Teigr]

I was Glad can vary depending on if it is sung in 'full' or not. Some recordings will not have the 'Vivat Regina' middle section, whereas others will. (My understanding is that this is only meant to be sung with monarchy in attendance, as then it becomes a 'simple' psalm anthem)

I forgot about the Vivats. Just checked and the 4:41 recording isn't Parry, and the 7:43 has Vivats, so that brings it down to 5:27, 5:38 and 6:09, which makes a lot more sense.

I have heard many recordings that take thou wilt keep him too slow, especially on the section 'the darkness is no darkness with thee' in the bass and tenor

Remember of course, that the metronome was not around prior to Beethoven so works that pre-date him often have no definite tempo written down, and it can come down to how the DOM was taught the anthem

I know, it's just that some anthems from well before metronomes seem to be taken at about the same speed almsot everywhere, while others vary enormously. I was just interested to see which the most consistent were and which vary the most. Tallis 'If ye love me' seems to go about the same speed everywhere I've sung it and be pretty similar on recordings. Lotti 'Crucifixus' seems to vary quite a lot more than most.

T.

[daveinnorfolk]

I think the most 'famous' anthems, the Tallis definitely being one have a speed they are 'known' at.

If it was put in front of 10 conductors who had no knowledge, with choirs with no knowledge of the piece, i think the result might be quite diffrent.

[Teigr]

I think the most 'famous' anthems, the Tallis definitely being one have a speed they are 'known' at.

That's what I was getting at. Almost everyone takes the Tallis at more or less the same speed.
Which others do you think that applies to?
And which are the ones where there's the most variation?

If it was put in front of 10 conductors who had no knowledge, with choirs with no knowledge of the piece, i think the result might be quite diffrent.

I think most choral conductors come from a choral and/or organ background though, so will be familiar with the repertoire.

T.