Cheap Violins Options

[Columbusrat]

Hi all, I hope you can help...

My son is 18 and interested in playing the violin. He has 'issues' and so won't be persuaded to go to a shop to talk to the staff or try some out, and will be teaching himself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) However, it's quite possible that he'll decide very early on that the violin isn't for him, so doesn't want to spend any more than necessary to get a feel for whether he'll enjoy it or not. If he does, he may well go for an electric violin.

He plays the piano and although he didn't get on with formal lessons, struggling with theory and set pieces, once he's found a piece of music he likes he will work at it and can play up to Grade 5 with enough feeling to make one weep - he has always had a beautiful touch.

So what we need is a violin that's just good enough for him to learn to play a few notes without falling to pieces, and without sounding so dreadful it will put him off completely, but it would seem a bad idea to spend, say, a couple of hundred pounds for something he hasn't even heard when he may decide the violin isn't for him after all. Therefore we're looking at the really cheap, £40-£100 end of the scale. Will this be OK for an absolute beginner to dip his toes in, or will it be next to useless? And could anyone recommend a really cheap violin that won't fall to pieces at the first touch of a bow or sound absolutely dreadful? This site http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instruments/Violins.html has starter violins at around ?40, ?60 and ?100, but I've no idea whether the more expensive ones would be significantly better than the cheapest one.

One violin I have my eye on is this one: http://www.aranmore.co.uk/studentstarterviolin.htm I like the fact that it's made by a small, seemingly traditional British company, but can't find any reviews, or much about the company at all, on the internet. Do you think this would be as good a starter violin as any?

Many thanks for any help you can offer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DiscoPants]

One violin I have my eye on is this one: http://www.aranmore.co.uk/studentstarterviolin.htm I like the fact that it's made by a small, seemingly traditional British company, but can't find any reviews, or much about the company at all, on the internet. Do you think this would be as good a starter violin as any?

Many thanks for any help you can offer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No it isn't.
It'll be made in China.

[janexxx]

There are potentially a lot of difficulties with this. I'm not saying it can't be done, and your son is obviously very musical. But a violin is not at all like a piano to teach yourself.

I'll just post my initial thoughts here, and I don't want to put you off as the violin is a lovely thing, but I believe you do need to be aware of a number of things before you spend lots of money.

I would not recommend learning without a teacher, even if it is only for the first few lessons. The way to hold the instrument and the posture needed for the violin really need to be shown and corrected by a professional. Your body is held in an unnatural position and real actual damage can be done if this is not right (eg back. neck shoulder, arm, wrist problems), and the right muscles relaxed and used.

A rank beginner on a violin will sound awful, regardless of the quality of the instrument. It takes a long time and lots of patience to start making a nice tone.

Playing in tune on a violin is difficult at first, as you have to find exactly the right point on the string. Lots of scales and intonation exercises are needed. Not like a piano which is already tuned and you just depress the appropriate key. Your son's already good ear for music should help with this as listening and correcting are important to playing with good intonation.

A cheap violin will be just that, however there are some good Chinese ones about at the moment, but I expect you will have to pay in excess of £100 for something reasonable. Even then you need to consider the quality of the bow, and you may need immediately to put better strings on it. A set of strings is upwards of £30.

Have you thought about renting? There are schemes where you pay a lesser amount over a period of months, and if you want to keep the instrument you can buy it out with a larger payment at the end of the hire period. If you decide after a few months that it is not to be, you can hand it back and not pay anymore - this might suit your needs.

Another thought is to see of there is anyone who will loan him a violin for a while, to see if it is right for him, before you spend lots of money.

Good luck

[aesir22]

I agree with the above. Definitely need a teacher for a bit, otherwise if he does decide he wants to keep going he is going to have a LOT of bad habits that will need breaking. I'd say a teacher is vital for strings.

Renting would be your best bet. I have heard some of the cheap violins and trust me, the sound will put him off lol

[Toscaviolin]

I totally agree with all the comments made here, the violin is not an instrument for someone who wants to teach themselves, it would be like climbing Everest having done a bit of hill walking in your spare time. In fact I really don't see how you can teach yourself, there is just so much technical stuff compared to piano that it would in fact be making life more difficult for yourself rather than easier, I can totally see how it is appealing to just get on with playing the piano , with feeling, without worrying about using the hands just so but honestly don't think this would work with any string instrument, but would be glad to be proved wrong if there is anyone out there who has done it without any tuition at all.

As you son sounds very musical I wondered if he may be after the sound of the violin rather than the actual playing of it, in which case you may be better to invest in a areally good electric piano/keyboard which has good quality samplings ( and many are not good so it would mean trying them out )

best wishes

[Minstrel]

Yitamusic T19 or M19.
Lots of background and comments on this forum, you can find it by doing a search.

I would also second the advice about a teacher. For background too I suggest he has a look at Todd Ehle's posts on YouTube.

[Columbusrat]

Thank you all - some great and useful advice there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Knowing him, having a teacher to start off with may be non-negotiable (most things are non-negotiable with him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry.gif) ). It may be he needs to buy what's more or less a bit of firewood with elastic bands around it and makes noises that will make the cat curl up and die, then will be able to make the decision to commit to at least some lessons and get a half-decent violin. Whatever he plays on will sound diabolical for some time, anyway.

Toscaviolin, that's a good point about an electric piano. But he tells me that an electric piano that would rival our piano (a lovely Kemble) and satisfy him would be at least £1000, and it may well be that it's the tactile quality of the violin that attracts him, as well as the sound.

[fsharpminor]

Liz is very good at http://www.elidatrading.com and she is a forumite.

[MollyB]

I would also agree that learning the violin without a teacher is not advisable. Its very difficult to learn proper technique, hand position, intonation etc etc unless you've got a real live person observing you and coaching you as appropriate.

I used to play the piano as a child/teenager and got to Gr 6 before I stopped, so I'm in a position to compare learning the 2 instruments. It obviously takes a lot of work and commitment to play any instrument well, but it is much easier as a beginner to get things really wrong on a violin.

It will also take longer for a beginner violinist to start making a decent sound than it will for a beginner pianist, so if your son is thinking that in 6 months time he'll be playing at Gr 5 level without a good teacher, I would think that unrealistic. It will take commitment on his part to achieve a good sound.

As regards the choice of instrument I would suggest it depends on his personality and whether you think he'll be willing to stick it out for long enough to justify the purchase. Last year when I started having violin lessons I bought a £40 violin kit and instead put my money into one-on-one lessons. I wasnt sure if I'd like it and I wasnt able or willing to spend too much to find out. And yes, I agree that the typical £40 instrument is awful....there's no other word for them, but they served a purpose for me.

As it happened, I do enjoy it very much and have since upgraded to an instrument which I love.

Its a catch-22 situation; someone like me might be happy to plug away at a poor instrument until such time as they have the money to upgrade. Someone else might get discouraged trying to learn on a poor instrument and give it up very quickly.

Which is why I said it depends on his personality.

[miffy]

Stentors are good and solid and go for £80ish. Antonio start at £50ish and I'm quite impressed for the money..
However, like the others, I really couldn't think of a worse instrument to attempt without a teacher.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Geminist]

No sure where you are based but if you're in London, I know of a good shop which offers hired violin. Including refundable ?40 deposit, I hired my violin for 3 months for about £75 altogether.

I thought this is the best way, hire one, try and if I don't like it, I can just return it. If I like it, I can then spend more on a better violin.

The shop that I went to offered a beginner's violin, but it was set-up properly (according to my teacher).

[ffliwt]

I have to agree that it is literally impossible to learn violin without a teacher
Having taught myself other instruments (piano, and some others) i thought violin would be no different
I thought i was doing well, copying every video and book and website i could get my hands on
But when i went for lessons i was doing SOOO much wrong

He may do what i did though - tried teaching myself, really enjoyed it and wanted to get better and realised it's impossible to get past grade 3 sort of level without a teacher.

I carried on with lessons and now violin is my career (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (and i started at 16 so 18 isnt too old to start lessons either!)

I'd go for maybe a stentor 2 as a first violin, if he likes it then buy some dominant strings for it - it makes the violin sound 110% better, as the strings that come with it are practically barbed wire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Claudia's Mum]

We also had a Stentor 2 violin up to grade 5 which was fine and did the job perfectly well. We got ours from Normans for about £70 but they cost a bit more now.

[aesir22]

Ok, you could take a tougher stance. You are the parent, he the child. If he wants to start violin, tell him he needs to start with a rented one and have lessons with a teacher for a period of time. If he refuses, fair enough. Doesn't want it enough at this time. Maybe wait til he is a bit older.

He shouldn't start without a teacher. No two ways about it. If he does you will be wasting the money you pay for a cheap violin because it will take him God knows how long to unlearn bad habits.

[muzikalbadger]

This site http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instruments/Violins.html has starter violins at around ?40, ?60 and ?100, but I've no idea whether the more expensive ones would be significantly better than the cheapest one.

Can I just add as no one has mentioned this point that I quite like the gears for music violins?? Obviously the more expensive ones are better, and with better strings and proper set up can be really really good value for the money spent, but equally the cheaper ones seem to be perfectly ok and compared to bog standard antonis and stentors I actually prefer them! I don't know what others think, this is obviosuly just my opinion, and it may be that because its a few of my more talented beginners using them they sound better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) but i do like them...
I have to say that like everyone else has mentioned, he will really really struggle without a teacher, but I have had a few adult pupils (hes 18 you said, yes?) who have taught themselves basic stuff, and although bad habits need to be corrected they have coped well... Especially if they just want to be able to play music they enjoy, you can fix the problems that NEED to be fixed, and over time gradually fix the less important problems... For example I have a 70 odd year old, grade 4/5 ish violinist who had dabbled with the instrument since school, never having had lessons... He had taught himself "vibrato" to an extent... So the first thing I did was fix his position etc to ensure he wouldn't hurt himself playing the instrument, and then gradually worked on various techniques until he is at the point he is now where is is playing in 3rd position, learning 2nd and 4th position, and has totally fixed his vibrato... Its still not perfect, but its a proper vibrato rather than shaking the violin!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) So it is achievable... just a very very difficult and quite often frustrating (and ear splitting!!) process...