Music at Oxbridge Options

[MrViolin]

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences of undergraduate music at Oxford or Cambridge? Is one course better than the other or with the emphasis on different aspects? Thanks.

[linda.ff]

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences of undergraduate music at Oxford or Cambridge? Is one course better than the other or with the emphasis on different aspects? Thanks.

It would be almost impossible to make a comparison without having a close acquaintance of both at the same time. However, for what it's worth, I was at Oxford in the 1960s and I now live in Cambridge (and I've been married in the register offices of both places, only have Yale and Harvard to go and I get a special certificate, I think)

I can't say what undergraduate music is like in Oxford now, but in the 60s I didn't think the academic side was well run. Maybe it was just me being inept and knowing how to find out what I needed to do to learn. I needed more carrying than I got, though somehow, lord knows how, I finished up with a 2nd (we didn't have 2:1 and 2:2, but you could get a 3rd - can't you get that nowadays?). Also in those days the degree content was almost entirely academic, no perfomring necessary, other than the ability to sight-read. You couod do performing as your specialist subject (one paper - I was advised not to as I'd only have to feel ill on that day and I couldn't sing) all the rest was history, analysis, harmony and counterpoint.

However, it was, and I'm sure still is, and I have a feeling that Cambridge also is (caveat - I don't have any link with the university here other than that my husband takes care of their computers) second to none for extracurricular music. That was what I went to Oxford for, and the reason for this is the collegiate system, whereby every one of the thirty or so colleges has a music society of its own and wants to put on concerts. Even before I went to Oxford I read in a handbook that every other student who goes to Oxbridge starts up a choir or an orchestra or a chamber ensemble of some kind. It was even better in the 60s if you were a singer and female, because every college wanted to have a choir some time, and there were 5 women-only colleges and about 30 men's so by my second year I was very much in demand for what I had to offer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If you're wanting to know about the academic side of things, I couldn't really tell you much about either place now, though I know they want very high grades to get in.

[UnnaturalHarmonics]

Cambridge is BRILLIANT for extra-curricular music. I imagine Oxford is the same. All the colleges have a massively varied music programme and it's not limited to college- I know I did concerts for Trinity and Downing, and a couple of others I can't remember! Plus there's the University orchestras which are amazing and do challenging repertoire / proper tours. There really is all sorts going on. There's a Gilbert and Sullivan society that performs at the Minack...

Don't forget to apply for an instrumental award too. You have to do a certain amount of chamber music with an ensemble you get 'put' into. Which college are you thinking, or have you not got that far yet?

[Hedgehog]

Cambridge is BRILLIANT for extra-curricular music. I imagine Oxford is the same.

Absolutely agree. Daughter went to Cambridge (left last year) and thoroughly enjoyed being involved in the music. She's now been invited to an Oxford college to sing as one of her friends is doing a DPhil in Oxford and they're clearly in need of a few spare sops.

[MrViolin]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still deciding between music college and having a crack at Oxbridge. Performance is my main thing but a degree from these universities is worth far more than a music college one. I'm basically asking can you do just as well on the performance side at a university as you would at music college, if you worked.

[Dulcet]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still deciding between music college and having a crack at Oxbridge. Performance is my main thing but a degree from these universities is worth far more than a music college one. I'm basically asking can you do just as well on the performance side at a university as you would at music college, if you worked.

No.

[linda.ff]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still deciding between music college and having a crack at Oxbridge. Performance is my main thing but a degree from these universities is worth far more than a music college one. I'm basically asking can you do just as well on the performance side at a university as you would at music college, if you worked.

I wanted to train as a singer. My dad wanted me to have "proper" degree to fall back on. So I went to university and it may have been that which hampered my becoming a good professional singer, but I learnt a lot more musicianship-harmony-history there than I would have done at the RAM (where I subsequently went for just one year before dropping out for financial reasons). I also found that when I went to the academy I was technically not as assured as those of my age who had done three years there, but I actually had far more performing experience than they had, and I had a far, far bigger repertoire. However, it could be that my performing experience wass not of such a high calibre as it would have been had I gone there first. There's no knowing.

This, though, was in the 1960s.

In what way do you think the university degree is "worth more"? It may carry more weight if you're looking for a senior academic post, but I would have thought if you want to be a performer it will be your ability that will be important rather than your paper qualification.

[andante]

Having watched my daughter go through the university application process in the last 12 months for a music degree there is a huge difference between the course at a university and at a conservatoire. One is geared towards performance and the other isn't. The course at Oxford (I don't know much about Cambridge, but would be surprised if it wasn't similar) is very academic. Performance is an option, but still a small part of the course. Some people do an academic degree and then apply to do a postgraduate course at conservatoire, which possibly gives the best of both worlds. Manchester does a joint course with the RNCM, but the entrance requirements are AAA (although if you are considering Oxbridge that presumably isn't a problem) and it is heavily oversubscribed.

On the subject of instrumental awards, the only ones I could find at Oxford were choral or organ scholarships, but maybe I was missing something.

[STRINGMUM]

One of my son's friends is at Cambridge studying music and has done more playing and singing than many of her friends at conservatoire.

[Dulcet]

Having watched my daughter go through the university application process in the last 12 months for a music degree there is a huge difference between the course at a university and at a conservatoire. One is geared towards performance and the other isn't. The course at Oxford (I don't know much about Cambridge, but would be surprised if it wasn't similar) is very academic. Performance is an option, but still a small part of the course. Some people do an academic degree and then apply to do a postgraduate course at conservatoire, which possibly gives the best of both worlds. Manchester does a joint course with the RNCM, but the entrance requirements are AAA (although if you are considering Oxbridge that presumably isn't a problem) and it is heavily oversubscribed.

On the subject of instrumental awards, the only ones I could find at Oxford were choral or organ scholarships, but maybe I was missing something.

Instrumental awards are only available at some colleges - but they are for any instrument in most cases (caveat, out of date info, but they certainly DID exist. No knowing what privileges they get you, though!)

The thing to remember is that if you're at a university, the performance opportunities will require you to make them happen, rather than being the whole point of your course so they are arranged for you. And those studying music won't get the pick of the playing opportunities - they'll have to audition along with everyone else (and the music students are not necessarily the best performers). It is true that the musical events in Oxford and Cambridge are multifarious, and you could go to 2 concerts every day of your academic life and not hear everything going on, though!

[linda.ff]

Looking back on people I had known at university, almost all of those who have had successful performing careers have been conductors or organists. Quite a few highly successful singers have come through King's College choir in Cambridge, but from my time at Oxford the most successful singer (later) wasn't even reading music, as Dulcet has pointed out.

We discussed this phenomenon once while I was there (the fact that really good players aren't even music students) and one girl said "Oh, I knooooow. You just have to make up for it by being terribly knowledgeable about people like Dufay" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Minstrel]

You can apply to both conservatoires and universities as there are different application systems for both (UCAS and CUKAS), so you don't have to decide yet. It is a well trodden path and one which Youngest Daughter may be following next year.

[RoseRodent]

Having watched my daughter go through the university application process in the last 12 months for a music degree there is a huge difference between the course at a university and at a conservatoire. One is geared towards performance and the other isn't.

I'm not sure it's as general as that, and much depends where you are applying. If you apply to the "top" universities and the "top" colleges it does still seem to have that clear divide, but there are many university courses which are performance-based. At least 60 of the 120 annual credits on a course I know can be taken through performance. The rest is "supporting studies" which include mandatory theory (but so do conservatoires) but also include other practical options like teaching, conducting, arranging, composing. It doesn't have to be that university applications are all about essays, but it can be. Depends on the course and the options which an individual selects within that course - two people with identical degrees can take a very different path to them.

[andante]

We were only looking at the top universities as my daughter is very academic, so I can't comment on the others. Since the OP was asking about Oxbridge I assumed they were also only looking at the top universities. If you want a performance based course and are good enough to get in surely most people would look at the conservatoires, rather than a less well thought of university.

[limh]

We were only looking at the top universities as my daughter is very academic, so I can't comment on the others. Since the OP was asking about Oxbridge I assumed they were also only looking at the top universities. If you want a performance based course and are good enough to get in surely most people would look at the conservatoires, rather than a less well thought of university.

Just a digression for those who are considering Oxford and Cambridge as non-music students, but with a view to enjoying their high-quality, vibrant extra-curricular musical possibilities: Don't do it unless you know you'll cope with the whole package. I went to Cambridge in the late 80's, studying Natural Sciences, but with totally inadequate maturity, social-skills and academic talent. The result was three years of desperately trying to keep my head above water with no time to enjoy anything. Cambridge is a great university (I gather Oxford's fairly reasonable too), but it's not right for everyone, and it's no shame to admit another place suits you better.