Oboe How To Get Higher Notes In Tune!, advice, or at least reassurance, needed Options

[flobiano]

I'm sure this has been posted before somewhere but I couldn't find it - it's probably in the midst of the long oboe thread.

I've got my oboe lesson tonight and this week I've been practising a study and piece that had a few passsages in the top C/C#/ D range. Despite my best efforts they still sound horribly out of tune, squeaky etc and the tone is just terrible.

I've spent at least 20 minutes a day doing long notes and octave jumps with a tuner but still can't get them in tune - my C is so sharp that my tuner actually thinks it IS C#. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Nothing I tried seemed to bring it back down though.

I'm hoping it's just because I am more aware of it now (I only bought my tuner a week ago!) as it seems to be getting worse rather than better. My bottom octave isn't too bad and I can go from bottom C up to top G with them pretty much in tune, G to A isn't kind of OK but then it all goes to pot.

So basically, any ideas of what to do? Am I expecting too much too soon and will it eventually come right in the end? I don't have a 3rd octave key at the moment but hoping to upgrade my oboe soon, will that help?

On a related note - when I go from top D down to C or top C# to B, I am really struggling to make the fingering change smooth. I always seem to get passing notes, and have isolated that changeover but no joy yet, it just sounds clunky and messy! Any tips?

I'm not looking forward to my lesson at all, because to me it sounds worse than when I started and like I haven't done any practise at all - which is very frustrating because I know that I have!

[clarijo]

I'm a clarinet player so can't give any advice on the instrument I'm afraid but just wanted to say that if you have been practising so hard, your teacher will be able to tell, even if you think there is no difference. I have had my own struggle with the altissimo register on my clarinet and know how frustrating it is when notes just won't come out right!

Keep at it, you will get there in the end - practise makes perfect! And I can see from your signature that you must have already been through similar stages on your other instruments and got through it! Enjoy your lesson later - good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[violoboist]

In my experience at a teacher, C is a notoriously difficult note to tune, especially for a beginner, or for a returning player, so don't give up hope! In fact, it's one of the reasons that the French favour the conservatoire fingering system, as it makes C and Bb far more stable.

Lots of long notes!
x

[stevensfo]

In fact, it's one of the reasons that the French favour the conservatoire fingering system, as it makes C and Bb far more stable.

I play conservatoire oboe and those notes are still horribly sharp. But the low notes are a little flat. When God created the reed, he may not have thought about scales. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm sure that other players will give you better advice, but I've learned that you have to roll your lips forward a fraction as you approach those notes. After a while it becomes automatic.

A tuner helps enormously but it can be quite scary to see how much your notes can vary! You may not notice it yourself, but the day you play with others...!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Steve

[flobiano]

It's nice to know that I am not the only ones that have problems with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) My lesson went OK actually, we only did the study and a couple of the other (easier) pieces that I've been working on. The other, very high piece will wait till next time - so a bit more time to practice. She also gave me a slightly different fingering for D and C# which sounds a lot better. I'll keep on plugging away at the long note practice ! I may have to invest in some earplugs!(and maybe a set for the neighbours too) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I think the tuner does help me make those adjustments automatically - it's all about practice I guess.

She did say that she thought I was getting on well and had improved a lot! So that made me feel a lot better. As clarijo said I did manage to get through this on the flute, I think once you're through it you kind of forget how difficult it was at the time. Also it took me 17 years to get from grade 5 to 7 on the flute so hoping to do it a little bit quicker this time! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[violoboist]

Glad it went well last night!

I play conservatoire too... to be honest, I think it can be as much about knowing your oboe really well, anticiapting and adjusting all the time as anything else. We'd all love to have an oboe that plays every note in tune all the time... sigh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

My oboe and I fall out all the time, but for me, I know it's a case of listening all the time (and perhaps practising more... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

[Arundodonuts]

It's nice to know that I am not the only ones that have problems with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) My lesson went OK actually, we only did the study and a couple of the other (easier) pieces that I've been working on. The other, very high piece will wait till next time - so a bit more time to practice. She also gave me a slightly different fingering for D and C# which sounds a lot better. I'll keep on plugging away at the long note practice ! I may have to invest in some earplugs!(and maybe a set for the neighbours too) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I think the tuner does help me make those adjustments automatically - it's all about practice I guess.

Yes and yes. You need to experiment a bit with alternative fingerings to get the higher notes in tune. But there is something else. I was playing horribly sharp around top C# / D earlier this year. The problem was diagnosed as biting down on the reed caused by having too hard a reed. I have gone slightly softer (still a medium but picking out softer ones from a batch) and that has made a huge difference. My embouchure is more relaxed and everything is more in tune. The very bottom notes are actually a tiny bit flat now but that just encourages me to support more and give plenty of air - which is a good thing.

Long notes definitely. Lots of them. With and without the tuner. Octave slurs and arpeggios, that sort of stuff.

Going back to your original post, some of the changes you mention are notoriously difficult to get smooth without the "intermediate" notes. A few hints I have been given:
What are the notes that are sounding in between? That will tell you which is the lazy finger (i.e. the one which is coming down last). You have to get all your fingers coming down together so work on speeding up the slow one.
Play the difficult parts in scales more often than the easy parts. Play them slowly, and make the changes slowly. If you can make a good note change when moving your fingers slowly it will be easier when you play up to speed.
Play the difficult parts of the scale with a dotted rhythm - fast, slow, fast, slow and slow, fast, slow fast. make the slows long enough to think about what you are going to do next and make the fast as fast and accurate as you can.

For what it's worth here is what I'm doing at the moment on scales (and why).

1. Pick todays major scale. With the tuner play slow tongued arpeggios up and down to check tuning (and TONE).
2. Slow tongued scale from tonic to 8ve or 12th or "top extreme of my range" down to bottom B or Bb, back up to tonic - again with the tuner and checking tuning and tone.
3. Tuner off, metronome on. Tongued scale 72bpm playing crotchets.
4. As 3 but play each note as 1 crotchet plus 2 quavers (e.g. C C C, D D D, etc.)
5. As 4 but play each note once (e.g. C crotchet, D quaver, E quaver, F crotchet, G quaver, A quaver, etc.)
6. As 4 but crotchet, triplet
7. As 5 but crotchet, triplet (e.g. C crotchet, D triplet, E triplet, F triplet, G crotchet, A triplet, B triplet, C triplet, etc.).
8. Scales and arps as prescribed by the scale - tongued and slurred. Now at Grade 5 (where I'm heading at the moment) the speed requirement is 80bpm playing in quavers, so having played triplets at 72, this then feels relaxed.
9. Any uneven changes need attending to SLURRED as tonguing masks the problem.
10. All the above for the relative minors (harmonic and melodic).

It looks a lot but having got into it it takes about 20 minutes.

[Roseau]

I don't have a 3rd octave key at the moment but hoping to upgrade my oboe soon, will that help?

A 3rd octave key is only used for E and above so will be no help for the notes you mention.

On a related note - when I go from top D down to C or top C# to B, I am really struggling to make the fingering change smooth. I always seem to get passing notes, and have isolated that changeover but no joy yet, it just sounds clunky and messy! Any tips?

As Pushpull says it is one finger moving slower than another. However, my experience is that it is usually a finger lifting slowly (rather than coming down slowly). When this happens to me, I usually ask my teacher at the next lesson to look and tell me which finger is slow - that is far easier than trying to work it out for myself!

As for high notes in tune, for A,B and C play the octave lower and just open the octave key, if your embouchure and breath support is correct then the note should come out without you doing anything. If it doesn't come out then your air speed is probably not fast enough. What you are probably instinctively doing when you're playing is biting down on the reed - this will make the note come out but it will be out of tune. In other words what you need to work on is improving your air speed/diaphragm support (for want of a better term) in the lower range.

[flobiano]

Thanks to you all for the good advice - it's much appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Violobist - I nearly fell out with my oboe today, but it did seem to get a bit better in the end! I tried a different reed which seemed to help.

I think I definitely need to work on giving more support as I'm not always getting a stable pitch for the higher notes, but octave jumps seemed to help a bit! So more of that I think!

Pushpull I've printed out your scale practice -it looks a good way of doing it.

I think with the finger change it is getting the 2nd octave key and the top key depressed/ or open at the same time with my index finger. Practised it a lot today and managed to do it cleanly a couple of times -which is more than last week!

I'm sure it will come, just need to stick with it and not get too disheartened. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[violoboist]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bob.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bob.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

Not sure how bob made it... I just liked him!