Village Choir Tips, They can't sing minor thirds... Options

[Organistin]

I've managed to end up temporarily in charge of a village choir (though it could end up being permanent) - SATB 12 people in Austria. Even though I don't have any voice training at all they still wanted me to do it because there simply isn't anyone else and they love singing so much that they didn't want the choir to fold. I'm a violinist/organist/pianist and I sing for fun so although I feel competent about teaching the lines and putting it all together, when it comes to technical problems I'm a bit at a loss as to what to do to help them.
So that's the background...
On the whole the sing really well (mostly unaccompanied in 4 parts) however these are the 2 problems I have identified:
1) Always ending up flat (often up to a tone flat) by the end of the song. I can feel them going down within a few bars and when I've sung with the sopranos or altos I can keep the pitch and I just hear them going down down down - they don't seem to be able to sing up to my pitch - I don't know whether that is a problem of hearing or of creating the note. Any thoughts welcome?

2) None of the lines can reproduce a minor third. One of the songs was going horribly wrong on Monday and when I analysed it, it was going wrong any time any of the lines had to sing a minor third. One of the Basses said that he thought that the minor third doesn't appear very often in Austrian folk music because he thought it sounded really unusual when I was playing minor thirds for them to hear on the piano. This may be the case. I heard another of the village choirs singing today (the women's choir) and they sang 7 out of the 8 songs absolutely beautifully. The 8th went unstuck ..... where a minor 3rd was involved. Normally I just sit and listen and enjoy but today I thought I would just see if the women's choir could manage the minor 3rds.
I'm sure we and the women's choir don't come unstuck every single time there is a minor third but it just seems a bit funny that every time we come unstuck a minor third is involved.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be most welcome.

[bourdon16]

Do you have cuckoos in Austria? Get the choir to imitate them.

http://www.honeyguide.co.uk/minorthird.htm

(Read on about the Beethoven)

[Czerny]

Do you have cuckoos in Austria? Get the choir to imitate them.

You could always nip over to Switzerland and borrow a clock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Organistin]

Do you have cuckoos in Austria? Get the choir to imitate them.

http://www.honeyguide.co.uk/minorthird.htm

(Read on about the Beethoven)

You could always nip over to Switzerland and borrow a clock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

There's a cuckoo somewhere in the forest behind my house and I'm going to wring its neck if it doesn't shut up...
but maybe I could take it to the rehearsal on Monday

[Czerny]

It is curious, though, as I thought the minor third was supposed to be a very instinctive interval to sing which is why it's found in many playground chants and (I think this is right) used a lot early on in Kodaly.

[stetenorve]

This is spoooooooooooooky! Check out the time of this post. The thread is now discussing minor thirds and cuckoo clocks - and my clock has just cuckooed (is that the correct past tense?) downstairs, so I rushed down to disable it for the evening.

It sounded A#, then F.

[bourdon16]

It sounded A#, then F.

Get it mended! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL1Xt3T9ZnY&NR=1
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmYL1UoBpTQ

[AnnC]

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Czerny]

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've just realised A# - F would be an augmented third, not a minor third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[AnnC]

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've just realised A# - F would be an augmented third, not a minor third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Maybe this cuckoo is late in the season? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Czerny]

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've just realised A# - F would be an augmented third, not a minor third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Maybe this cuckoo is late in the season? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'm liking the idea of a flock of cuckoos standing around (in someone else's nest, presumably) arguing about whether it is in fact spring or summer and thus which interval they should now be singing. I imagine there's some sort of cuckoo choral director who takes the final decision.

[muffinmonster]

Not an expert here but based on my own experience of singing in choirs, the going flat problem may be a matter of breath support as much as ability to match a pitch.

And yes, the minor third is supposed to be one of the easiest intervals to sing - so that's odd! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[AnnC]

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've just realised A# - F would be an augmented third, not a minor third. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Maybe this cuckoo is late in the season? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I'm liking the idea of a flock of cuckoos standing around (in someone else's nest, presumably) arguing about whether it is in fact spring or summer and thus which interval they should now be singing. I imagine there's some sort of cuckoo choral director who takes the final decision.

Or maybe they just "wing" it (hides) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Cyrilla]

It is curious, though, as I thought the minor third was supposed to be a very instinctive interval to sing which is why it's found in many playground chants and (I think this is right) used a lot early on in Kodaly.

Indeed it is - and I've actually never found anyone who can't sing a descending minor 3rd (although I have to admit that I've not taught anyone from Austria!).

And yes, the minor third is supposed to be one of the easiest intervals to sing - so that's odd! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

*scratches head*

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Organistin]

It is curious, though, as I thought the minor third was supposed to be a very instinctive interval to sing which is why it's found in many playground chants and (I think this is right) used a lot early on in Kodaly.

Indeed it is - and I've actually never found anyone who can't sing a descending minor 3rd (although I have to admit that I've not taught anyone from Austria!).

Come and meet my basses.... their descending minor 3rds were horrific on Monday. They could just about manage it with the piano - singing the interval a few times. Then when I played the first note on the piano and asked them to sing the second it was wrong again. We got seconds, and major thirds but never a minor third.