Again About Holding Violin, left hand 'issues' Options

[jojo]

Hi,
I have a kun original shoulder rest fitted on my violin at its highest setting and a guarnieri chin rest.
when I hold the violin it stays firmly in place with my shoulders relaxed. 'Almost' but not completly parallel to floor (very slightly with scroll towards floor, but only slightly).
When I play and use my left hand fingers on fingerboard, I have to hold the violin with both my thumb and also not my palm but the first knuckle by the palm of my index finger, otherwise the violin goes towards the floor.
Is this 'normal'?? Does everyone in some sort of way hold the violin with left hand whilst pressing fingers on fingerboard or are you supposed to hold violin so firmly with your head/collarbone that no assistance is needed from the left hand?
Might be a stupid question, but I am getting a little obsessed about this. I won't see my teacher for 3 weeks now (he's gone abroad).
I was also looking at buying the stowemaster shoulder rest as I heard many good things about it but the makers told me it is not height adjustable and if I require it higher they will alter it before they ship it to me, they say that in its original conditions it is the same as a wolf shoulder rest at its lowest setting but I don't know how low or high that is so don't know whether to ask them to adjust it higher or leave it as it is.
Sorry I'm waffling too much and begin to go slightly off topic now.
I have searched the archives but found nothing on the left hand question I started asking in this post.

Thank you you 'patient lot' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[jojo]

I was also looking at buying the stowemaster shoulder rest as I heard many good things about it but the makers told me it is not height adjustable and if I require it higher they will alter it before they ship it to me, they say that in its original conditions it is the same as a wolf shoulder rest at its lowest setting but I don't know how low or high that is so don't know whether to ask them to adjust it higher or leave it as it is.

I have been on 'email contact' with the makers of the stowemaster shoulder rest...I have told them how my kun original shoulder rest 'fits me' and told them I am worried if I order their shoulder rest it may turn out too low/too high. After a couple of very quick and good e-mails from them this is what they did for me:
asked me to send them photos of my violin with shoulder rest fitted on (told them it was a kun original at highest setting and how this felt when playing). They said I will need a 'higher' stowemaster rest so will alter it for me so that it will give me the same height as what I am using now.
They have been ever so helpful so I though I'd tell you in case you are 'hunting' for shoulder rests.
I have ordered now one from them, when it arrives I'll let you know if it is any good (also the price has fallen to just over £40, it used to be almost £70 and watch where you buy it from as I have found a website selling it at £80!!!!)
Jo

[earplugs]

You should not be gripping the neck between the thumb and 1st knuckle joint as this will restrict shifting and vibrato and possibly your ability to reach properly over to the g string with the 4th finger. The thumb does need to support the neck sufficiently to counteract the downward pressure of the fingers. I don't think you can hold the violin so firmly at the chin to resist the finger pressure without the thumb supporting they have too much leverage out there on the end of the neck. Try to keep the pressure between thumb and fingers to the minimum necessary to stop the string down, and keep it all relaxed. Don't squeeze the sap out of the wood.

Is that what you were asking?

[jojo]

You should not be gripping the neck between the thumb and 1st knuckle joint as this will restrict shifting and vibrato and possibly your ability to reach properly over to the g string with the 4th finger. The thumb does need to support the neck sufficiently to counteract the downward pressure of the fingers. I don't think you can hold the violin so firmly at the chin to resist the finger pressure without the thumb supporting they have too much leverage out there on the end of the neck. Try to keep the pressure between thumb and fingers to the minimum necessary to stop the string down, and keep it all relaxed. Don't squeeze the sap out of the wood.

Is that what you were asking?

Thank you earplugs, yet that's what I was asking...I don't keep pressure between thumb and 1st knuckle if I play on G string, but do with A and E string usually, it could be that I need to keep the thumb not so much by the side of neck but slightly more under it? I'll experiment at my next practice session. I did think that you do need to support neck somehow a little with left hand as it seems almost impossible to keep violin in place otherwise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Violinia]

It's best to aim for balance between your shoulder, thumb and base of left first finger. Shift the balance when shifting and back again when not. Everything should be nice and relaxed; any pain in the left hand will usually be because of too much squeezing with the thumb; a good exercise for this is to place scroll at wall and play with no thumb contact at all (keeping thumb about a centimetre from neck, gently flexed). This will build up the strength in the fingers and alleviate the need for thumb squeezing and its resultant tension in the hand.

Violinia

[jojo]

It's best to aim for balance between your shoulder, thumb and base of left first finger. Shift the balance when shifting and back again when not. Everything should be nice and relaxed; any pain in the left hand will usually be because of too much squeezing with the thumb; a good exercise for this is to place scroll at wall and play with no thumb contact at all (keeping thumb about a centimetre from neck, gently flexed). This will build up the strength in the fingers and alleviate the need for thumb squeezing and its resultant tension in the hand.

Violinia

So...really I am doing a little bit of the right thing as I 'juggle' between thumb and base of left first finger to help me balance violin at present, depending where I am playing on strings...on G string I help balance with my thumb, on A and E string balance with thumb and base of first finger (I am only on first position at present and only use finger 1 2 and 3 so far, have not got as far as 4 yet). I have heard about the practice against the wall, I better start doing it at times now.
Thanks Violinia
(ps I have no pain anywhere in my left hand so maybe I am managing not too create too much tension)

[elisabeth_rb]

Just wanted to say 'thanks' as well as this has answered something I was concerned about with holding my viola! I can relax a bit too as it seems I'd only need to hold it without left hand help if I needed to tune it etc and then only for a very short time. Phew!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)