I Can Play Tuba! Options

[BrokenChords]

I was in band today, and I played tuba for the first time. I did pretty well, I must say. It was kind of interesting how it all happened.

I was sitting next to one of my friends, who is mainly a euphonium player like me. My band teacher had recently put him on tuba for a couple of songs, and he was really not enjoying it. So I went and got the tuba just because I felt like trying it out, and I was playing it and doing an okay job with it, and then my band teacher noticed me playing it. Of course he told me to give it over to my friend. I was about to, until my friend claimed that I wanted to become a tuba player. So my band teacher asked me if I anted to give it a try, and I decided to see if I could do it. So I went over to sit next to the other tuba player, and he gave me a rundown of the basics, and by the end of class I was starting to be able to play it decently.

So I just want to ask if anyone has any advice for beginning tuba players. Anything I want to watch out for, especially from switching over from euphonium. I might become a permanent tuba player, so advice is appreciated.

[Sergeant_Chronos]

I was in band today, and I played tuba for the first time. I did pretty well, I must say. It was kind of interesting how it all happened.

I was sitting next to one of my friends, who is mainly a euphonium player like me. My band teacher had recently put him on tuba for a couple of songs, and he was really not enjoying it. So I went and got the tuba just because I felt like trying it out, and I was playing it and doing an okay job with it, and then my band teacher noticed me playing it. Of course he told me to give it over to my friend. I was about to, until my friend claimed that I wanted to become a tuba player. So my band teacher asked me if I anted to give it a try, and I decided to see if I could do it. So I went over to sit next to the other tuba player, and he gave me a rundown of the basics, and by the end of class I was starting to be able to play it decently.

So I just want to ask if anyone has any advice for beginning tuba players. Anything I want to watch out for, especially from switching over from euphonium. I might become a permanent tuba player, so advice is appreciated.

I play a lot of instruments and i'm going to tell you some advice that will always help you when it comes to musical instruments. (I've currently play Viola, Tuba, and Trombone but I have played Bassoon, Clarinet, Bass Guitar, and trumpet as well) The Tuba is a Tuba, not a big baritone not a " " anything. You should think of playing tuba as a completely different instrument on its own.

Your going to be a bass of the whole ensemble (if your like it or not, it doesn't matter) If you feel the slightest bit insecure about playing loud, by yourself, or having someone laugh at you, your going to have a tough time. I'm not doubting your skill on tuba but if your going to do anything college wise (higher education, might be different where you live) what might be "decent" from where you at might not compete with across the city. I thought I was good to until I seen some other tuba players on youtube and in real life.

Tips: increase your range. By the time you leave school you should be able to play a Bb on top of the staff all the way down to a pedal Bb. The tuba part is going to be easy in most songs, don't expect the melody or the main tune but since you have such an easy part you should be able to play it PERFECTLY. Every time. It might not be "required" but its defiantly expected no matter what your playing.

I think thats about it for now. If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

Experience: Played tuba for 5/6 years, Made 4th chair in an all-region comp, and study the subject of playing tuba professionally for many years.

[BrokenChords]

Well, I'm not going to keep tuba until college, it's just what I'm going to be playing in band. Violin is going to be the instrument I take through college, as that's what I plan to teach for my career. But it sounds like helpful advice. I know I can get relatively high on the tuba. I'm not sure about the really low notes though.

One more question, what is the highest note that a tuba can play?

[joolsters]

Theorectically...even higher than the piano. More realistically probably another 5 or 6 tones from middle C? That's almost 4 octaves you know!

[Sergeant_Chronos]

Theorectically...even higher than the piano. More realistically probably another 5 or 6 tones from middle C? That's almost 4 octaves you know!

Most students can achieve C at the top of the staff but since you plan on not playing tuba in college then I think from Bb top of the scale to bottom F (about 5 ledger lines down. The last note before you start pedal tones) will cover anything and everything you will need to play.

[BrokenChords]

Most students can achieve C at the top of the staff but since you plan on not playing tuba in college then I think from Bb top of the scale to bottom F (about 5 ledger lines down. The last note before you start pedal tones) will cover anything and everything you will need to play.

Sorry, what are pedal tones?

[joolsters]

The fundamental of the harmonic series. You know how on the Euphonium you get different partials depending on the tension on your lips and how it goes from something like

C --> G --> C --> E --> G --> (very flat) Bb --> C --> D --> E --> (very flat) F# etc.

The first "C" would be the 1st harmonic, and it is actually possible to another partial below that, the fundamental / pedal tone / whatever people call it. Theoretically you can add another octave below your range although it takes practise for your lips to relax but be firm enough to vibrate at such low frequencies. Composers rarely write down there because it's not very reliable and quite difficult to control (but it's great fun doing it!!!)

[briantrumpet]

The fundamental of the harmonic series. You know how on the Euphonium you get different partials depending on the tension on your lips and how it goes from something like

C --> G --> C --> E --> G --> (very flat) Bb --> C --> D --> E --> (very flat) F# etc.

The first "C" would be the 1st harmonic, and it is actually possible to another partial below that, the fundamental / pedal tone / whatever people call it.

This is a nice clear description ... but, apologies for being pedantic, the pedal C is actually the 1st harmonic, because the ratio between the pedal C (1st harmonic) and the next one (the 2nd harmonic - the first one in your list) is 1:2. So the list of notes with their harmonic numbers is:
C(1) - C(2) - G(3) - C(4) - E(5) - G(6) - Bb(7) - C(8) etc.

If you're at all interested in mathematics, it's well worth Googling "Pythagoras and music", as what he discovered is still highly relevant today - especially if you want to understand more about tuning.

[BrokenChords]

Ooh... My brain just about exploded there (It's like way past when I should have been in bed), but I understand now. I enjoy math, so I may take some time to look the 'Pythagoras and music' up.

[kenm]

The fundamental of the harmonic series. You know how on the Euphonium you get different partials depending on the tension on your lips and how it goes from something like

C --> G --> C --> E --> G --> (very flat) Bb --> C --> D --> E --> (very flat) F# etc.

The first "C" would be the 1st harmonic, and it is actually possible to another partial below that, the fundamental / pedal tone / whatever people call it.

This is a nice clear description ... but, apologies for being pedantic, the pedal C is actually the 1st harmonic, because the ratio between the pedal C (1st harmonic) and the next one (the 2nd harmonic - the first one in your list) is 1:2. So the list of notes with their harmonic numbers is:
C(1) - C(2) - G(3) - C(4) - E(5) - G(6) - Bb(7) - C(8) etc.[...]

There are competing nomenclatures in this area. For a physicist, harmonics are components of repeating waveforms, and are indeed in the ratios of the natural numbers. They are determined by Fourier analysis, which is not particularly complicated but does need the integral calculus, so I shan't describe it. IIRC, a physicist would describe the various notes available on a brass instrument as the eigenvectors of an eigensystem; I prefer to call them overtones, though I suppose that few others do. A major objection to calling them "harmonics" is that the frequencies of the resonances are only approximately in the ratio of the natural numbers. If you put a mouthpiece on a parallel tube and blow it like a brass instrument, you will find resonances roughly in the ratios of the odd numbers 1:3:5:...[1] Brass instrument designers are obliged to have parallel tubing in the middle of their instruments, so as to be able to add extra length with valves, but then make the instrument approximate to the behaviour of the ideal conical shape, which gives frequency ratios 1:2:3:..., by adding a tapered mouthpipe and a rapidly expanding bell. This works amazingly well, but not perfectly, because the tapered portions combine with only one length of parallel tubing to give resonant frequencies in harmonic ratios.[2]

This is demonstrable on four valve instruments, such as double horns and tubas. Typically, on these, the longest configuration is nearly twice the length of the shortest. If you play the two series with these fingerings, aiming each note in the middle of the resonance, not attempting to lip it towards "correct" tuning, and measure the frequencies, you will find that at least one of them is not harmonic: either the short instrument has a compressed series or the long one an expanded one, or both. I tune my double horns so that the two sides (F and Bb) are in tune in the upper register, and can hear very clearly that the bottom notes of the shortest configuration are naturally sharp. They are easy to lower with lip and hand, of course.

Cornett resonances also depart from harmonic frequencies. Despite having a conical bore, my mute cornett has an expanded series of resonances, in this case, I suspect, because the ratio of throat area to bell area is small (about 32, compared with 3600 for my horn), so that the acoustic properties vary towards those of a parallel tube. The first octave and the twelfth are both usable with fingerings in which most of the holes are covered, because the pitches remain controllable by lip, but the double octave puts the note into a register where the resonance is very sharp, and no small adjustments are possible.

[1] The clarinet, with its near parallel bore and its reed similarly stopping one end, overblows at the twelfth, because that is the frequency of the second resonance.

[2] ISTR that Benade claims (either in his book, "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics" or his article "Physics of Brasses" in Scientific American) that there is no resonant frequency at that of the pedal note. What happens here is that the second, third and fourth harmonics of the lip or reed motion (this is a repeated wave form, so it does have harmonic components) lock into the higher resonances of the tube. The lowest resonances tend to be about a third lower than the harmonic frequency, so the pitch of these notes can be lowered easily with the lip.

[briantrumpet]

There are competing nomenclatures in this area.

Nice one Ken ... I've quoted the bit I understand, but I DO know that acoustics is a really fascinating area, especially when it comes to brass intruments. I can't wrap my head round most of it, but....

There was an article in the International Trumpet Guild Journal (Jan 2008) talking about pedal tones. The two fascinating snippets that I picked up were:
1) that the effective length of the tube changes depending on what note you play, because of the shape of the bell (you probably said that, Ken), and
2) that most of the energy coming from the player's lips actually returns back up the instrument to the player's lips, unless you're playing really high. Whoa!

Oh dear, I think I've descended into Blue Peter mode.

[kenm]

There was an article in the International Trumpet Guild Journal (Jan 2008) talking about pedal tones. The two fascinating snippets that I picked up were:
1) that the effective length of the tube changes depending on what note you play, because of the shape of the bell (you probably said that, Ken), and
2) that most of the energy coming from the player's lips actually returns back up the instrument to the player's lips, unless you're playing really high. Whoa!

I didn't say anything about either of these directly. I have read both of these statements before, and am happy with the second. I'm not sure of the significance of the first one. I believe it refers to the position in the bell where the travelling wave appears to be reflected back. The thing about mathematical models is that you can sometimes find more than one that represents the physics with adequate accuracy. The question is then, "Which one is right?"; the answer is, "Neither: both are approximate, but good enough."* The point about this is that if you think about the phrase "effective length of the tube", you realise that its meaning depends upon a mathematical model of the acoustics. Actually, the same is true of "energy", which is a derived physical quantity also, not quite as fundamental as "length" or "time". Philosophers of science consider it a surprising (and very helpful) property of the universe that its processes obey mathematical laws.

* There is a situation like this with stopped notes on the horn. When one first starts playing them, one knows that putting the hand in the bell makes the note flatter, so it seems weird that ones teacher insists that the right fingering is a semitone lower. In well-informed horn circles, it is recognised that both these statements are true and useful: if one puts ones hand further and further into the bell, the note gets flatter and flatter, until either the lowest note one can get is a semitone above the next unstopped note below the starting one, or, more likely, ones lip has not relaxed sufficiently to get there, so the pitch breaks back and finishes a semitone above the original. Since the hand reduces the effective length of the horn by about the same as the length of a semitone valve (on the normal F side), it is no surprise that the series available on the stopped instrument is a semitone sharper than the unstopped one, but it would be possible to model the first (flattening) process mathematically also. However, when one is playing a stopped passage, the instruction to finger a semitone lower has the great advantage of simplicity.

[joolsters]

I always wondered why people say finger it lower, because when I do it (by keeping the embouchure the same on the same note) there is obviously a distinct "flicking" which suggests a switching of the partials (and it said fingering doesn't seem to work although I have yet to see low stopped notes). But fingering down a semitone seems to work fine when I need it, so I am not complaining (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(hums Hunter's Moon by Gilbert Vinter)

[kenm]

I always wondered why people say finger it lower, because when I do it (by keeping the embouchure the same on the same note) there is obviously a distinct "flicking" which suggests a switching of the partials (and it said fingering doesn't seem to work although I have yet to see low stopped notes).

On low notes, so-called "stopping" mutes (often small, egg-shaped objects) give a better sound than the hand. They change the pitch, as the hand does, and as a good normal mute does not. It takes longer to put them in the bell than stopping with the hand, so their use is not always possible.