Which Oboe? Options

[Claire21]

Greetings to all oboists (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do a bit of oboe teaching and currently have a 10-year old student who is about grade 4 level but is playing on an awful instrument. I've told his parents he needs a better one and they have asked me for suggestions - something that will take him up to grade 8. Trouble is, I don't really know what to recommend (and I feel like I should at least give them 2 or 3 choices). I know the obvious answer is to go and play some but this is easier said than done: Howarths only really stock Howarths at this level of intermediate instruments; they occasionally have more 2nd-hand ones but it's pot luck what they have, and at the moment they don't have much. I have phoned a couple of other London music shops too but they also have very little (one brand each, or none!).

So my question is: can you recommend some make / model numbers that would be suitable? The parents are willing to pay around £1000 for a new instrument, perhaps a little higher. I know Howarth S20's are good, but they're also expensive... What are people's opinions on Yamahas, Buffets, W&W's?....

Thanks in advance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pianoboe]

Hi,

I recently got a second hand Howarth S20 - I've been learning for 4 years and am about Grade 5/6. It will hopefully last me to G8 and beyond. I love it, and after trying a few oboes, it's definitely the best. Good things come to those who wait.

[violoboist]

Claire, where in the country are you? Peter Davies here in Hudds is an oboe specialist, and always has loads to try.

A thread like this will always cause arguments, because most oboists will tell you their brand is the best... and fair enough!

Most brands do an intermediate model, that will see a player through to grade 8 without the need to upgrade to a pro model unless they want to take it really seriously, or go to uni etc. Personally, I would stick to the well known brands- Marigaux, Loree, Buffet, and Howarth, but don't disregard Cabart, Kreul and Yamaha! There's a adazzling array of choice, and you need to think not only about price, but weight, duarbility and sellability if the pupil suddenly decides they've had enough (grrr!).

Personally? I play a Buffet pro, and these are fetching low prices at the mo- there's one for !000 on Ebay at the moment for example... but lots of people will disregard Buffet because 'they make clarinets'. With the oboe, I would suggest to the pupil's family that they might have to travel. If you're in London, you might try John Myatt in Herts (who are having a huge 'we're moving!' sale, incidentally!

Um, well, I hope that all helps! It's a case of suck it and see, I think...

[itchy1]

I have a W&W TW3 with open holes. It makes a nice sound and I enjoy playing it, but I haven't tried a Howarth's oboe. I think the W&W oboes are cheaper than Howarth's, but don't quote me on that one!

Surely there are other shops that deal with oboes, or do Howarth's have the monopoly??

[sara smith]

Just been up to Howarths today and the queue was nearly out of the door!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Good for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sara

[AmandaL]

Surely there are other shops that deal with oboes, or do Howarth's have the monopoly??

Howarth is a bit of a 'Mecca' as far as oboists are concerned. It is THE place to visit for oboe playing visitors to London and in response to that, they now offer a range of gift items such as keyrings made from African Blackwood off-cuts in the shape of oboe, cor and clarinet bells.

Just been up to Howarths today and the queue was nearly out of the door!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Good for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I suspect that now the summer holidays have arrived, there will be plenty of students and/or their parents sorting out upgrades and hiring instruments ready for the new term. Usually lots of foreign visitors this time of year too, plus, many of the pros who take August out from work will take their oboe in for an annual check up or emergency repairs.

Back to the point of the original posting, well, I could blag on about Howarth oboes until the cows come home, but at the end of the day it's peoples own preference that makes them buy a particular instrument. It doesn't just depend on the sound, but additionally, what feels comfortable in the hands. Howarth do make excellent oboes and they are well worth the extra cost, but if buying new try several S20 models before making a decision, since no two will sound exactly alike. Similarly, when trying secondhand instruments, if there is more than one of the same model available, try them all.

[A.U.K]

Hello there, just had a root round on Howarths webpage and there maybe three ways that your pupil might get a step up the oboe ladder.

Firstly...The parents may have to bite the bullet and stretch the budget a little which would afford them an S10 Howarth or a little more for an S20 (which I accept is double the budget)

Secondly they can get something called assisted purchase which Howarth advertise and that will lose the dreaded VAT...its quite legal (until either Mr. Brown or Mr. Darling spot the loophole and penalise musicians even more) but the purchase is done through the school and somehow this removes the tax...

Thirdly and the one idea I prefer is that the pupil buys a secondhand instrument from Howarths...Currently they have a Marigaux full system with thumbplate for £1250...sold as seen but I am sure Howarths would attend to anything that needed attention. There are quite a few good secondhand instruments on their list so its worth a look. Also consider that while the instrument is secondhand that (a) it will probably be a considerable step up quality wise at a fraction of the price of new, (b) the wood will be matured and better quality being older and unlikely to crack again if at all. New oboes are notorious for cracking in the top joint, the more recently made the more likely it seems it will happen, the wood stocks are just not as seasoned as they used to be, production is up and the wood is being used much earlier than it possibly should be hence the cracking issue. It doesn't happen to every oboe but it does happen so maybe an older instrument will be better. If the budget has a ceiling then thats the way I would go.

It is of course imperative that the pupil plays the Oboe he/she buys...wherever they live a trip to Howarths would be well advised. Phone ahead and discuss the requirements I am sure they will help.

Good luck

Kindest regards

Andrew

[AmandaL]

Also consider that while the instrument is secondhand that the wood will be matured and better quality being older and unlikely to crack again if at all. New oboes are notorious for cracking in the top joint, the more recently made the more likely it seems it will happen, the wood stocks are just not as seasoned as they used to be, production is up and the wood is being used much earlier than it possibly should be hence the cracking issue. It doesn't happen to every oboe but it does happen so maybe an older instrument will be better.

I would agree that many more new oboes crack these days, particularly if the player doesn't have the time - as with many professionals - to play the instrument in gradually.

I do wonder if the quality of the wood isn't quite what it used to be either. The wood itself comes from a very slow-growing tree - something like 60 years for it to reach maturity - and many trees are being cut down early in their lives, to supply the huge demand. The wood is not quite as strong from younger trees.

This is another reason why African Blackwood (like Pernumbuco for violin bows) is becoming yet another endangered species. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Humans don't learn, do they.....

[Claire21]

Oooh, so many things to reply to...

Violoboist: I'm in Surrey, so Huddersfield is a bit of a trek... John Myatt is more realistic for the parents to go to, but it's still a bit of a jaunt for me just to go and try things out. It's London or nowt, really.

Generally: this oboe is for a 10 year old, so I don't think a full Gillet system is really necessary yet. It's extra weight for one thing. While they could possible snap up a bargain Marigaux if they were lucky, I still think that's a bit beyond him. (And the parents don't really want their kid wandering around with a very expensive instrument anyway...) They have nothing against second-hand, it's just a second-hand WHAT that's the question. Howarths do have an S20 on their 2nd hand list though, so maybe I should push them towards that.

Andrew: assisted purchase - as far as I can make out, you have to be in a state school (ie. LEA) for this. This child goes to a private school, though.

Itchy: it does seem that Howarth's do have a bit of a monopoly! I've phoned other music shops in London and they've basically said 'ooh, bit of a niche market, you'd be better off at Howarths'.

[A.U.K]

Hello Claire, what a quandry for you...

Naturally I didn't realise that the child was in private school, I presumed (quite incorrectly) that it was the price being an issue and not the fact that the child would be left in charge of an expensive instrument which seeing as they are 10 is probably very sensible of the parents, its not like you can tie it to the child like a pair of idiot mittens..(as we called them when I was a child oh so very long ago now). There are other oboes there which are much cheaper at the £750 mark on the secondhand pages and might be worth a call to Howarths. Have a chat with either Emma Gourlay or Mike Britton to get the lay of the land. I would strongly reccomend that the parents insure the oboe however just in case...10 year olds can be dreadfully forgetful.

Good luck with the search...

Regards

Andrew

Sorry I forgot to add, I would always go for a French maker, Howarths are not my bag though I am assured they are excellent (AmandaL will be after me with a big stick) but I love Loree, Marigaux and Rigoutat in that order.

I would be careful of Burgheloni marketed here as Sound Alchemy they have not had great reviews though they do make a super Cor Anglais apparantly. I have no experience of Yamaha or Buffet so cannot comment on them either but they sell well so what do I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

happy hunting

Andrew

[AmandaL]

Sorry I forgot to add, I would always go for a French maker, Howarths are not my bag though I am assured they are excellent (AmandaL will be after me with a big stick) but I love Loree, Marigaux and Rigoutat in that order.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It's all down to personal preference. French made oboes do sound very different to English made oboes. Howarth instruments suit me better because they do have a bigger sound and with me being a small person, I don't have quite the lung capacity that some players have. A Howarth oboe does deliver a sound I like with the added bonus that I don't have to work quite so hard to get a forte or fortissimo that will carry above other instruments.

I have no experience of Yamaha or Buffet so cannot comment on them either but they sell well so what do I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I did try a Yamaha once and the thumbplate itself was really weird. It was even connected with a strange linkage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) . Whether the designs have since changed, I don't know.

Claire21,
Howarth do sell other makes of instrument, apart from their own, so don't discount the shop itself. They offer excellent advice and won't force you into buying any particular make.

[A.U.K]

I must confess I am a conservatoire player, have never played a thumbplate so cannot comment on them...give me a full Gillet anyday..

Andrew

[jod]

John Myatt would be a good place to look. Please encourage your pupil to actually play the oboes as they are very personal instruments.

I personally do not like Yamaha Oboes, I play a Buffet, but am not totally enamoured with it. I've heard encouranging noises about Ward and Winterbourn. If you pupil's parents canr each that far a Haworth S20 would be my first choice. I have an S20 Cor Anglais and its a beautiful instrument.

My suggestion is to try them out though with the reed you encourage your pupil to play on.

[AmandaL]

I must confess I am a conservatoire player, have never played a thumbplate so cannot comment on them...give me a full Gillet anyday..

Full Gillet with thumbplate gives you a lot more options on fingerings and hence a wider range of tonal variations.

[A.U.K]

Nah nah na nah nah (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I accept what you say AmandaL you are quite right, I guess it all comes down to what we are used to...most of my friends are thumbplate players...I consider them all very odd (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

it'll be a cold day in.....before a thumbplate lurks on the rear of my isntrument... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)