French Horn Options, what on earth do they mean? Options

[elidatrading]

Right then, I have a working knowledge of piston valve brass (if that's the term) - trumpet, tenor horn, tuba, euphonium etc. but I know very little about french horns.

Now, this is the position: my husband has had this hankering to play french horn for years and years. To be perfectly frank I don't really think he will persevere as his dabblings so far in viola, classical guitar (which, to be fair, could have something to do with the fact that i immediately lost the book - don't ask!) and recorder have all come to nothing (he is a good pianist and gets impatient with not being able to pick an instrument up and play it). Well, we are dealers (this is not an advertisement!!) and we are about to put in an order with a well known Chinese supplier, mainly for flutes, and my husband suddenly says "hey, why don't i get myself a french horn" - well, no problem with me - they're cheap, if it's faulty we have a tame repairer, if he doesn't get on with it it can go on ebay cheap, and if by any chance he does get on with it, well, we're Conn Selmer dealers too, though we order from them only rarely, and so he can upgrade rather easily later.

So, these are the descriptions. What should he order? What are the differences?

1. F key, 3 valve
2. A / B flat key, 4 valves
3. F / B flat key. 4 valves
4. (for interest) "children model" B flat key 3 valves

I just thought french horns were in F with 3 valves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Liz

[kenm]

[...] we are dealers (this is not an advertisement!!) and we are about to put in an order with a well known Chinese supplier, mainly for flutes, and my husband suddenly says "hey, why don't i get myself a french horn" - well, no problem with me - they're cheap, if it's faulty we have a tame repairer, if he doesn't get on with it it can go on ebay cheap, and if by any chance he does get on with it, well, we're Conn Selmer dealers too, though we order from them only rarely, and so he can upgrade rather easily later.

Your repairer may be able to deal with valve problems and leaks, but only a horn specialist will know what to do to a horn that just plays badly or has an unpredictable note.

So, these are the descriptions. What should he order? What are the differences?

1. F key, 3 valve

This is the basic chromatic horn that you know about, usually described as a single F. It may have a good sound, but it will be difficult in the top register because the notes you can get with a single fingering get dangerously close.

2. A / B flat key, 4 valves

As described, this is one I have never seen. More usual would be B flat with A key, but this might have reversible thumb valve that would let you convert to that. I would not recommend this to a beginner, for two main reasons. i) It allows you to make an uncharacteristic sound, too near that of a tenor horn, or even a cornet, whereas the single F encourages you to make a good rich horn sound. ii) There are notes at the bottom of the register that it can't play, and they occur, especially in Classical 2nd horn parts, which is the sort of music a beginner might meet early.

The thumb valve should have an insert in its tubing. In its short configuration it acts as an extra semitone valve; in the longer one, it is about three quarters of a tone, which is the length you need to add to keep the instrument in tune when you are hand stopping.

3. F / B flat key. 4 valves

This is an ambiguous description. It could be any one of three instruments.

i) The least likely is that it is like number 2, built in B flat, but with the thumb valve adding enough tubing to produce the F length.

ii) The most desirable is that it is a full double horn in F and B flat. The thumb valve diverts the air way to one of two routes, and the finger valves add the appropriate length in each route.

iii) Slightly less desirable musically, but still possibly a good instrument, and lighter than ii) is a compensating horn in F and Bb. The thumb valve adds a loop of tubing; the finger valves each add one extra length in the main airway and another extra length in the loop. The fingering is exactly the same as ii).

4. (for interest) "children model" B flat key 3 valves

That is probably like 2) without the thumb valve, but with a more compact layout, so that someone with short arms can still put his/her right hand in the bell.

I just thought french horns were in F with 3 valves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

There's some way to go yet; I have an Alexander catalogue with over 200 models of horn in it, none of them being triples (see below). Other designs include:

descant horns in high F;

full doubles and compensators in B flat and high F (F alto);

triple horns in F basso, B flat and F alto (rather heavy and very expensive, but used by some top professionals);

five-valve singles in B flat, with the usual muting valve for the thumb and either a second thumb lever or one for the little finger adding enough tubing to lower the series by a fourth, to F: a light and versatile instrument, but better suited to a high register specialist (first and third horn parts) than low (second and fourth);

the French design that they and we used from c. 1850 to 1950: a horn with three piston valves and a set of crooks and couplers giving a basic length from B flat alto down to B flat basso or lower;

the Vienna horn (see BBC 2 or BBC 4, morning and evening, respectively, of New Year's Day) which has a unique valve design and end crooks;

most of the ones described so far with a third valve that shortens the instrument by a tone's worth, instead of lengthening it by a minor third (popular in France).

None of the designs above were available before 1820, by when there had already been at least four varieties, and there were others that came and went before 1870.

[elidatrading]

Thanks Ken, I feel better educated now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Liz

[IrisH - LoonY]

Wow...I'm glad I'm not a brass player! That sounds SO confusing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[kenm]

Wow...I'm glad I'm not a brass player! That sounds SO confusing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Only when you're buying one. The basics of playing are the same on them all, and you soon get used to the differences. They pale into insignificance compared to the differences between French and German bassoon fingerings. I would think they were less of a problem than closed and open G# on a flute. Anyone like to comment on the various fingering systems of oboes?

[Allannah]

Hi,

Did your husband buy a french horn in the end and if so, which one and was it any good?

thanks

[euphonious]

3. F / B flat key. 4 valves for preference but a 3 valved f horn would probably be cheaper andd have the same effect. The 4 valved ones are good for playing in orchestras though if you have to transpose.

[stevensfo]

You could also ask that question here:

http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/list.html?f=16

Good luck,

Steve

[elidatrading]

Hi,

Did your husband buy a french horn in the end and if so, which one and was it any good?

thanks

Only just seen this and after 5 years I rather doubt anyone is interested in the reply but yes, we bought one, he tried to play it twice, found he couldn't and gave up immediately as I expected. Then he lost the mouthpiece. Then the valves all jammed in storage. Finally today I took it for repair and found out that it is not an F horn as I thought but a B flat. And it has a stopping valve. I don't recall that is what we ordered but after nearly 6 years we certainly aren't going to be able to change it now! We're not keeping it of course.

Liz