Music you "ought to" like but just aren't that into, .. help me like it? Options

[corenfa]

I'm not trying to start a "[genre1] is better than genre2]" holy war here. This was prompted by having Radio 3 on this morning and an opera programme came on. My instinct was to change the channel, but I didn't - it was about how many operas end with the female soloist dying, and the reasons for this. It was really interesting.

(This also isn't meant to slag off any genre in particular - just because I don't like it stuff doesn't mean I think it ought not to exist)

It was the initial instinct to change the channel that made me think of this. I have had the opportunity to listen to lots of opera, having been a music student, but I just don't really like it. Musically it does not do much for me.

I think I ought to like it, though, because it's a pretty important genre in Western musical history. It might be that I am listening with the wrong emphasis or I just don't get it or I don't know enough about it to get it. I *appreciate* it, but I don't really like it.

Anyone got any ideas for how to approach music like this? Anyone got any other similar experiences?

I also feel as though I ought to know a bit more about Chinese music as those are supposedly my roots, but it doesn't do anything for me either.

Lastly it's also occurred to me that maybe no matter how much I intellectualise about opera or Chinese traditional music, I'll never like either, the same way I keep trying booze (see the alcohol thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and just don't like the taste. That would be OK too, but I feel as though I ought to think about it a bit more (music, not booze (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) before writing it off altogether.

[Seer_Green]

In the past I've been made to feel that I don't listen to the 'right' sort of music ('right' as defined by the 'establishement'). These days, I tend to not be bothered by it - I'm sure I don't listen to the music I 'ought' to and I certainly don't write the music I 'ought' to.

I think it's all part of a journey of discovery - I like things now which I wouldn't have touched a couple of years ago - these things seem to just evolve gradually - the worst thing for me has been trying to listen to things because I feel I 'ought' to - it just puts me off even more.

I think the most important thing is to always be open to new things.

[fsharpminor]

You have a soul mate here Corenfa. I too have never been an opera fan, though I have been to see a few, and watched some on tele. I'm into Orchestral, Piano, Chamber, Instrumental, and Choral..everything except Opera, it just doesn't do anything for me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) . It's been like that for all of my life. ! And Im into all periods of music from pre baroque right to recently composed works (James McMillan, Trygve Madsen, Thomas Ades)

[rovikered]

I'm not trying to start a "[genre1] is better than genre2]" holy war here. This was prompted by having Radio 3 on this morning and an opera programme came on. My instinct was to change the channel, but I didn't - it was about how many operas end with the female soloist dying, and the reasons for this. It was really interesting.

(This also isn't meant to slag off any genre in particular - just because I don't like it stuff doesn't mean I think it ought not to exist)

It was the initial instinct to change the channel that made me think of this. I have had the opportunity to listen to lots of opera, having been a music student, but I just don't really like it. Musically it does not do much for me.

I think I ought to like it, though, because it's a pretty important genre in Western musical history. It might be that I am listening with the wrong emphasis or I just don't get it or I don't know enough about it to get it. I *appreciate* it, but I don't really like it.

Anyone got any ideas for how to approach music like this? Anyone got any other similar experiences?

I also feel as though I ought to know a bit more about Chinese music as those are supposedly my roots, but it doesn't do anything for me either.

Lastly it's also occurred to me that maybe no matter how much I intellectualise about opera or Chinese traditional music, I'll never like either, the same way I keep trying booze (see the alcohol thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and just don't like the taste. That would be OK too, but I feel as though I ought to think about it a bit more (music, not booze (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) before writing it off altogether.

Hi corenfa,

I share your dislike of opera, but my answer to your question may well be negative from your point of view.
Music I dislike, I do not wish to approach, and I don't see any reason why I should. The older I get the more I realise that trying to like something because you think you 'ought' to do is a sham : feigning a love or liking for something because it is the 'done thing' is pretentious and I totally abhor pretence. We all have different tastes and unless they harm others there is no reason to be ashamed of them. So, unless you have strong feelings in 'liking' what you think you 'ought' to like, I recommend that you continue to follow your natural tastes. Life is too short to spend time trying to learn or like something you naturally dislike.

Best wishes in whatever you decide. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
rk

[Arundodonuts]

I don't think it's particularly useful to categorise music in that way and say I like X and hate Y.

I'm not a huge opera fan, there are many, many I'm sure I wouldn't be terribly bothered about missing, but there are some I absolutely love and would listen to or watch time and again. The same goes for any other genre. So I would guess that you haven't yet come across the opera that would open the door for you.

I would also suggest that opera is very much a live event. Listening to a CD or watching a DVD doesn't quite do the job. That said, the operas I have enjoyed most have come from hearing the music first. Not necessarily the whole thing, but just those "usual suspects", the suites, interludes, etc. though sometimes just a special moment.

With Wagner's ring cycle it was a Klaus Tennstedt record of extracts, with Britten's Peter Grimes it was hearing just the final "mad" scene of Peter on the beach.

Of course there is the option of just leaping in to see what happens. Some years ago I got ?3 standing tickets to see Don Giovanni. It was a bit of a trial (the standing) but it was good. On the same tour was a contemporary opera "Cornet Cristoph Rilke's Songs of Love and Death" by Siegfried Matthus. There were plenty of tickets so I decided to go. It was broadcast on Radio 3 the previous evening and I gave it a listen and came away wondering if I had just wasted my money. But, in the event, it was a fabulous spectacle and I would love to see it again.

Mind you, I often find that with live performances. A piece of music I've not rated very highly or struggled with, comes into its own when heard live.

[KTViola]

Completely agree with the need to see opera live in a theatre, I find watching it on TV a total turn off, and I'm too distractable to just listen & make any sense of it.

So - since you seem to want to get into opera, I'd ask you what the nearest thing to opera is that you do like.

Do you like musical theatre, ballet, choral works, historical novels? What period of music appeals to you most? What is it that turns you off opera?

If it's the big, 'Wagnerian' vibrato-laden voices that put you off, how about trying something a bit earlier? A bit of baroque opera in a small venue with a specialist company. Or if it's the stupid plot lines (plenty of those around!), try something like Britten's Gloriana (based on the life of Elizabeth I - don't know if it's actually on anywhere at the moment but it made a big impact on me when I saw it years ago). If it's the fact that you don't know what they're on about anyway, get yourself to English National Opera at the Coliseum - all their productions are done in English.

Definitely go and see the best production you can manage though (and don't worry - it's not as expensive as some people would have you believe), and make an event of it.

[maggiemay]

I agree, some excellent points in KTViola's post if I may say so.

Opera is not my favourite genre, but there are some that I like very much.

String quartets, on the other hand ................. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Misti]

I concur with the 'live' aspect.

I have minimal interest in opera, but when I've seen one live, with all the theatre, drama, staging and atmosphere I can enjoy it.

(That said, the last time though was a bit of a headache: I was in Germany, the actors were singing in Italian and the subtitles were in very high German. I still enjoyed the music and the theatre, but can honestly say I have no idea as to the plot!)

In a similar way, I enjoy ballet, but find it boring on TV and the music on its own... okay for background noise when I'm working? If I go out to a production, with lots to watch and real musicians (ballet to a CD is less engaging) then I have a really good time.

Perhaps, in a similar way for other genres, going to concerns is a way forward. If the music is still doing nothing for you, there are always other diversions like watching for second violinists who have got lost (that is the reason there are so many of them, right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ) and counting how many times the conductor stops beating anything remotely helpful....

[barry-clari]

Poulenc. I've been told that as a wind player, his flute and clarinet sonatas are 'must plays', but I'm afraid I really can't see the attraction...

[janexxx]

I agree, some excellent points in KTViola's post if I may say so.

Opera is not my favourite genre, but there are some that I like very much.

String quartets, on the other hand ................. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

There are some operas I love - and these are largely the ones I have experienced live - so this validates the idea of going to see them. Most however bore me, and I am put off by the 'warbling' opera style.

When I went to NYC I was lucky enough to get tickets for the Met. It was Gounod's Faust which was an absolute fave of my parents, so I sort of knew the story and some of the arias - however this didn't stop falling asleep through most of it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) My excuse is I was jet lagged, tho I am sure I would not have slept through Peter Grimes.

On the other hand string quartets (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[corenfa]

Wow, some excellent replies have appeared while my curry has been cooking, thanks all!

I suppose I'm not really after any sort of "legitimisation" of my lack of like for opera - I just was thinking about why I didn't like it, and wanting to give it another chance. If I turn out not to like it after trying a lot, that'll just be the way it is, but I've often found that I give something (food and books usualy) a second go and then I think, why didn't I try that a lot sooner??

KTViola, thanks for the good suggestions. It actually is the heavy vibrato style of singing that turns me off, particularly in the female voice. The plot lines and lack of language ability aren't it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) And now that I think a bit harder I can actually think of opera performances that I have been to and did enjoy. I have never enjoyed opera on the radio or listening to recordings and that might be why I've been left cold by it, too many hours in the music library listening to it through headphones.

All of you who have suggested watching it live, that is the point I've been missing. I saw an excellent production of Madame Butterfly in the round at the Albert Hall and I didn't notice any screechy singing because the spectacle of the production was fun to watch.

Barry - I do love the Poulenc wind music, all of it, and I love it because it seems so emotionally ambiguous. I can never decide whether it is sad or happy, and because I think so much of life is like that, I really identify with it.

Seer_Green - interesting point you make about not writing the music you "ought to"! I studied composition for a bit and used to get a bit of stick for not liking the atonal style. I said that when I'd run out of things to write tonally I might look further afield. And once I got told that if I would write music "more like an Asian female" I might get somewhere. I have *no* idea what that is supposed to mean.

My last statement about atonal music has made me realise something - I have absolutely no desire to get into it and I don't even feel like trying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I wonder why I am willing to give opera a second chance and not atonality.

[barry-clari]

Barry - I do love the Poulenc wind music, all of it, and I love it because it seems so emotionally ambiguous. I can never decide whether it is sad or happy, and because I think so much of life is like that, I really identify with it.

Perhaps that's part of the problem with it for me : it just comes over to me as being a bit cold and, dare I say it, directionless...

[corenfa]

Barry - I do love the Poulenc wind music, all of it, and I love it because it seems so emotionally ambiguous. I can never decide whether it is sad or happy, and because I think so much of life is like that, I really identify with it.

Perhaps that's part of the problem with it for me : it just comes over to me as being a bit cold and, dare I say it, directionless...

I can see how it could be seen as directionless - I've often thought that it can be a bit rambly, harmony- and form-wise. However I love the melodies so that tips it in the other direction for me.

[anacrusis]

I'd just not push the issue, one way or the other - I am also not a fan of opera, or indeed of anything much with agonised wobbliato singing in it, but can tolerate a certain amount of Tallis-sort of singing reasonably well. Something I have found though is that I can listen to less favourite genres if my mood is right, and sometimes can also then manage "more of similar" for a bit - ie at times when I don't need to fall back to my comfort zone, I can extend what I'll listen to, happily. That has meant that over time, I've had spell when I can listen to Britten, or Schumann, Tschaikovsky or Brahms when normally these might just have me going bleh, and finding other stuff.

So - if you can stand Lieder, maybe listen to some of those to get into the mood, and perhaps extend that to listening to vocal duets. Alternatively, listen to some Mozart, then perhaps some Mozart churchy stuff, then perhaps one of his light hearted operas - or indeed only the odd aria from one. Ultimately though there is no shame in having preferences, and I don't see why you should have to pretend if you really don't care for a genre - it leaves all the more for those who do (and likewise, I'm not bothered if people don't like Bach - I do, and that's all that matters to me).

[KTViola]

My last statement about atonal music has made me realise something - I have absolutely no desire to get into it and I don't even feel like trying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I wonder why I am willing to give opera a second chance and not atonality.

Not as many good tunes in atonality as there are in your average opera (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You're in London - get yourself down to St Martin's Lane & see some live operas!

As for those string quartets that maggiemay's struggling with - I can understand that. It's the most fabulous sort of group to play in, but I can't see the attraction of sitting quietly and listening without being allowed to join in. I absolutely love playing quartets, but I can guarantee that if you sit me in a chamber music recital, I'm going to be asleep in no time. Well - unless the performers are either stonkingly good, or people I know, or I've had several strong coffees first.