Untalented Student Options

[Lemontree]

I have come to view students who struggle like this as an opportunity to refine my teaching skills - I find I learn far more in helping them to overcome their difficulties than I do with students who find it easy, and I'd sooner work with a student like this than someone who is talented but unmotivated.

I completely agree. That's what I was thinking, too. With the result that I tried several approaches. Last week she hit the roof and finally got the hang of it. To have it completely forgotten by this week. Where she was late - once more with the story of the literally dead dog.

However, she is an adult and I really was at a loss. However, in between, I got an email. For the first time ever I got a statement that her stories she tells for not showing up in time, not showing up at all, not having time for practice, lost credit cards (for not having the money with her) and whatever story of the dead dog she tells one and the other time, seem rather wild and that she really is wanting the lessons with me, paying me now in advance as it should be, if I am willing to work with her again. Wow, and I didn't even say something!!!! I guess at least something has sunk in! Maybe I can even get her to practice now in-between lessons. Would be the best thing to any progress at all. She didn't do it so far. Not even once. Makes one wonder.

But does your question regard music or architecture, Lemontree? *confused*

@astrakhan both - or probably more accurate any learning procedure that requires some abilities nature doesn't naturally provide. I have the situation with an art student. But it applies to music as well. And since I am going for teaching music, too, at a later point in my life, I just wondered, how others deal with that kind of thing.

[Digby]

Hi Lemontree,

Adult students like this do need a lot of patience, and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't stick with it for too long if they are finding it that hard.

Which instrument are you teaching?

What I tend to do with students like this is set the level so that we can get a piece to a 'just about' all the way through with all notes and rhythm in the right order. (you may have to forgo some rhythms) and then move on within 2 or 3 weeks. If you persist with one piece until it is right, it will always be associated with frustration and that doesn't help things. With each new piece try and get the rhythms right to start with. It's also worth trying some familiar pieces so the rhythm is not so much of an issue.

Also, I hope you don't mind me mentioning it, the English phrase 'to hit the roof' means to get really angry with someone and I'm not sure that was what you meant.

D xx

[saxophile]

What I tend to do with students like this is set the level so that we can get a piece to a 'just about' all the way through with all notes and rhythm in the right order. (you may have to forgo some rhythms) and then move on within 2 or 3 weeks. If you persist with one piece until it is right, it will always be associated with frustration and that doesn't help things.

Though you maybe have to be careful to check whether the student wants to move on. Speaking as an adult learner, I don't like it when my teacher tries to move me on from a piece when it isn't working reasonably well - it feels like I've failed and if (as is commonly the case) the problems are technical (eg fingering speed) I start feeling like I "can't" do XYZ. Which then creates problems the next time I encounter whatever the issue is! But maybe that's just me being weird... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Digby]

What I tend to do with students like this is set the level so that we can get a piece to a 'just about' all the way through with all notes and rhythm in the right order. (you may have to forgo some rhythms) and then move on within 2 or 3 weeks. If you persist with one piece until it is right, it will always be associated with frustration and that doesn't help things.

Though you maybe have to be careful to check whether the student wants to move on. Speaking as an adult learner, I don't like it when my teacher tries to move me on from a piece when it isn't working reasonably well - it feels like I've failed and if (as is commonly the case) the problems are technical (eg fingering speed) I start feeling like I "can't" do XYZ. Which then creates problems the next time I encounter whatever the issue is! But maybe that's just me being weird... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Absolutely, which is why the level needs to be set accessible enough so it can be played reasonably well within a short space of time. Especially in this case where there is clearly a practising issue as well.

So Saxophile, you're definately not weird,

Sometimes it is worth trying a different piece to learn a technicality, just because you've moved on, doesn't mean the piece is finished and you can't pick it up again later. I lost count of how many times I took a break from Chopin's Barcarolle when I was learning it.

[Susie]

I find the concept of a completely untalented student very hard to believe - this is no criticism of the question,- but I'm sure that most people have some musicality in them.

Now, of course, they may not have a particular talent for playing the piano, and I always have infinite patience with those who struggle, for there are very few who do not make some progress given time. (Some might argue that having infinite patience is not a good thing - the pupil might be better being told to go and learn the trombone or something - but I believe in letting everyone have a fair crack of the whip at something they want to do.)

It's surprising how often patience is rewarded eg I have a boy who has learnt piano for quite a few years now, although he's only in Year 7 at school. He is musical, but has the most sticky out fingers you've ever seen. Anyway through perseverance he's about to take Grade 1, something that I would never have thought would happen. He'll pass, maybe not with a brilliant mark but enough to give satisfaction. Who knows what the future will hold.

As far as plodding on with a piece until it's absolutely perfect, I often give it a few weeks, say a month, and as long as I can see that the pupil has learnt something from it I will suggest we move on, otherwise as Digby says frustration can set in. There's nothing to prevent us returning to that piece in 3 or 6 months time and it can often be evidence to the pupil of how much s/he's improved.

[Dulciana]

I'd definitely rather have an untalented worker than a talented ditherer. In reality, most have varying degrees of talent and commitment though. If someone has very limited ability and doesn't want to work either, then that's when we need to ask whether it's worth going on. With very talented but lazy individuals I'm happy to live in hope that commitment will kick in at some point, as long as we're getting somewhere. And I'm totally happy with low levels of ability when an individual is prepared to make an effort and we can work together to maximise what's there. But if a child, especially, finds it extremely difficult to coordinate even a few notes and isn't keen enough to really push the boat out with effort, I think it can actually do more harm than good to that child's confidence. There may well be other more useful things on which the the parents' money and the child's time could be spent.

Adults are slightly different, though, and I think it's really useful to sit down and talk with them about what exactly they want to gain for doing this. It's up to you, then, whether you can work with this.

[Alicia Ocean]

I find the concept of a completely untalented student very hard to believe - this is no criticism of the question,- but I'm sure that most people have some musicality in them.

I thought that too - until recently I came across one (an adult) with no rhythm at all. I thought it was some sort of odd joke at first. I would demonstrate thus -

x....x....x....x....

and pupil would play

x.x....x........x...

We spent ages (weeks) on rocking, clapping, marching, bouncing things, all to no avail. This pupil simply couldn't hear the difference between what I was playing and what they were playing. I turned to the AB Teacher's Handbook and the section on the rhythmically challenged suggested it would be kinder to suggest an alternative pastime. I was just thinking how to phrase this when the pupil rang to say they were giving up as they didn't have time to practice.