Poll - shoulder rest or no shoulder rest? Options

[ffliwt]

When i used to play with a shoulder rest, i never really noticed anyone playing without one, therefore never tried to.
Last month i had a consultation lesson with my teacher for music college in september, and to my surprise he told me i don't need a s/r. I'd never considered playing without one. I did play with a folded up cloth but now i use nothing at all, and i can't imagine going back to one... even though at first it was like learning to play all over again.
All of my friends at orchestra etc. don't understand how i can play without one and claim they physically can't do it themselves.

I think there's many people out there relying on s/r's when they dont actually need one - mine was causing me so many technique problems which are now well en route to being fixed now the rest is gone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But when i used a rest, i genuinelly thought i wasnt physically able to play without it.

I was just wondering how many people on here use one, and if they've tried to learn to play without one.

(No this isn't an anti-shoulder rest post! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) )


Oh dear - i don't think my poll worked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[AuroraViolin]

I've been doing some thinking about this recently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
this video is quite interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk8W5gFffA...der&list=UL
I watched it and then tried to play without my shoulder rest and I liked it...ish
I felt I had more freedom to move around the violin without it, but I must have been gripping with my neck or something because the next day I woke up and my shoulder was really clicky and just felt dead, pretty much!
I also noticed that without the shoulder rest I was holding the violin differently, with my chin more towards the tailpiece.

[ffliwt]

Yeah, i agree so much about more freedom. My violin can move, and isnt fixated to my shoulder! I used to want it to feel fixed and anchored down but my playing is better hwen its free.

When i used a shoulder rest i was using my shoulder to hold my violin... the s/r's didnt allow me to do otherwise! which gave me excrutiating shoulder pains especially when playing for long periods of time. Without the rest i hold the violin how it was designed to be held, between the collar bone and jaw (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I no longer get a sore (understatement) neck, shoulder and forearm and my hand doesnt seize up now either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Obviously everyones bodies are different though, this is just my experience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jessy]

Interesting stuff. I'm experimenting at the moment with ditching my shoulder rest, having been suffering neck and shoulder pain, and have gone for a sponge and a bit of cloth, which actually feels more comfortable. Not too keen on the rubber band look though...more customisation required, obviously!

I think perhaps many of us could do with consultation lessons to sort out these sorts of problems. Chinrests have a lot to answer for too.

[lilly763]

I've been doing some thinking about this recently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
this video is quite interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk8W5gFffA...der&list=UL
I watched it and then tried to play without my shoulder rest and I liked it...ish
I felt I had more freedom to move around the violin without it, but I must have been gripping with my neck or something because the next day I woke up and my shoulder was really clicky and just felt dead, pretty much!
I also noticed that without the shoulder rest I was holding the violin differently, with my chin more towards the tailpiece.

That's funny because I was also just recently inspired to play without a shoulder rest by her videos too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Also the fact that... er... I never quite mastered the art of keeping my shoulder rest firmly secured to the instrument... and it fell off when we were performing in the Sheldonian... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Sunrise]

I'm going to have a good look at the vid (not now, it's midnight here). I have always used a shoulder rest and up until this (and Jojo's experiences) I've never considered it an option to play without.
I think it could be an interesting experience after playing with one for 32 years!!

[lottie]

Interesting because I'm having shoulder/chin rest problems just now.

I thought I needed a smaller viola because moving my left hand around was difficult because my grip was quite tight, I couldn't reach 3rd position on the C string at all, and my 4th was flat. Then my teacher handed me his 16.5 inch viola and I could play it no problem, in all positions - even with the dreaded 4th finger in tune! The trick was that I could 'hold' his viola easily with shoulder and chin so my hand was free to do all sorts of acrobatics!

Turns out I had swapped my chinrest for a centred one but it was too flat and had no lip so I couldn't 'grip' my viola and it keeps sliding off my shoulder. My current shoulder rest keeps falling off if I have it in the position I need it.. or if it's fixed securely it's too far along my shoulder and the whole viola slides off.

So I tried playing without anything and the first thing I noticed was the difference in sound of my viola!!! Quite different. The jury is out on whether I think it's better though. I should have tried a cloth or sponge but had nothing handy so it was just sitting on my collar bone. Although I'm by no means skinny it did hurt the bone.

However my viola still felt insecure and I had started the dreaded thumb grip again.

So tomorrow I am off to try out new shoulder rests (and shhh.. also new violas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) ) so I'm interested to see how this thread continues...

[jojo]

the only thing I want to say and especially to Lottie:
it takes time and patience
the 'death grip' problem is IMPOSSIBLE to have when you play with no shoulder rest, playing with no shoulder rest cures it!
I repeat: it takes time and patience
also please go to this web page which although talk about violin, will apply also to viola I believe:
http://rkviolin.com/writ_fund_one.html

at least for the bit where it tells you about putting your left hand on right shoulder and blah blah to form a shelf for the violin, that bit really really 'lit the light bulb' for me and made all the difference to help me go 'rest-less'

shifting takes time and patience, I can shift very well all over the fingerboard now, no problem, the secret is to RELAX all over your body especially the left hand of course and give just a little nod with your chin on chin rest and of course time and practice practice practice as although now I can play slower pieces like the Meditation with no shoulder rest, if I had to play some very fast piece with shifting all over I am sure I'd be hesitant but there again it's only TEN days I've been TOTALLY rest-less with no sponge and nothing at all! after 4 years with a shoulder rest you can't expect me to do all the gymmicks with no rest in 10 days (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

there is a lot of advice out there but you have to look hard for it and often it is best to go slowly from shoulder rest to nothing, like to use a sponge for a few weeks and then make the sponge thinner and then eventually ditch it LOL I did this but rather quickly I used a sponge but very quickly got FED UP with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) could not stand it anymore!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif) funny isn't it???

At the end of the day I think 'one knows' when they want/need to go rest-less, deep down they know, at least most people know, I knew anyway, I knew for a long time, I kept having this little voice inside me all the time that kept saying 'ditch it ditch it ditch it ditch it' but kept fighting it as I was 'too scared' to go into the UNKNOWN and it was just so easy to stick with what I knew even though it was hurting me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Flossie]

I know that I 'should' be able to play without a shoulder rest, but I don't seem to be able to. I'm fine with a shoulder rest, but get neck pain and shoulder pain without the shoulder rest and then end up with a sore arm/wrist. I keep trying every couple of weeks because I know that people are supposed to play without one, but I really don't seem to be able to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) My teacher doesn't have a problem with me using a shoulder rest, thinks my set up is fine and has told me not to worry about it - but I know that it's something everyone is meant to be able to do... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[jojo]

I know that I 'should' be able to play without a shoulder rest

My teacher doesn't have a problem with me using a shoulder rest, thinks my set up is fine and has told me not to worry about it - but I know that it's something everyone is meant to be able to do... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I don't see where the problem is Flossie, is there a problem?

your teacher is happy, you don't actually have a problem playing with a rest (you actually mention a problem playing WITHOUT right?), you don't seem to have a 'desire' to play without a rest, so it sounds to me you are actually in a perfect situation already right?
(correct me if I am reading your post wrong though by all means)
so.....don't give yourself a problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) carry on as you are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

if someone told you that 'people are meant to be able to play without a shoulder rest' then I think that someone might have mislead you a little bit, that is a little bit too much of a generalisation. Ok, maybe in general many people 'can' play without one BUT certainly DO NOT make it YOUR problem Flossie ok? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and certainly not if you don't have a problem to begin with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[lilly763]

Okay, just went through a full 2 hour orchestra rehearsal without a shoulder rest. What I observed was that there seemed to be less tension in my right shoulder (which was good!) but sometimes my left shoulder felt a bit tight, like I was trying to prevent the viola "slipping around". I'm thinking some sort of cloth padding might resolve this? Maybe? Will see what I can do... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[miffy]

I can play without a shoulder rest, and did for a few years when mine went missing and I couldn't find a decent replacement (the brand I used are not made anymore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ).
But I prefer to use one. I think my posture is better with one, and the hold more secure, especially if I'm playing for hours or something that whizzes up and down the fingerboard.
Each to their own.

[viola-mad]

... I know that people are supposed to play without one

Perhaps some well-meaning person has misled you. Everyone's physical structure is different. Shoulder rests suit some people but not others. Chin rest setup is possibly even more important, and yet is often overlooked completely. I agree with Jojo - don't try to play without a shoulder rest if you're happy and comfortable with one, as you might end up giving yourself problems.

As for me, I use a shoulder rest, have always done so, and I like it. Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

[miffy]

... I know that people are supposed to play without one

Perhaps some well-meaning person has misled you. Everyone's physical structure is different. Shoulder rests suit some people but not others. Chin rest setup is possibly even more important, and yet is often overlooked completely. I agree with Jojo - don't try to play without a shoulder rest if you're happy and comfortable with one, as you might end up giving yourself problems.

As for me, I use a shoulder rest, have always done so, and I like it. Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

I agree completely with viola-mad, there are some people out there that get very snooty about shoulder rests, and for no valid reason.
Do whatever suits you best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jojo]

Besides, if I didn't have a shoulder rest in my case I'd have to find some other means of keeping my pencils from rattling round inside.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)