Alarm Bells Ringing About An Odd Pupil Advice Please. Options

[adagiok5]

[quote name='Violinia' date='Jun 16 2007, 10:34 PM' post='533991']
.

Thank you violinia have not thought about the other instrument aspect will certainly bear that in mind. I will see how the lesson goes next week if I am still finding him difficult will probably suggest that maybe I am not the teacher for him.

[skylark]

Thank you violinia have not thought about the other instrument aspect will certainly bear that in mind. I will see how the lesson goes next week if I am still finding him difficult will probably suggest that maybe I am not the teacher for him.

I can't help wondering if there is the risk of him reacting badly if you tell him at the end of the lesson that you don't plan to teach him any more. Can you have somebody in the house with you if you tell him face to face, or otherwise telephone after the lesson....

[adagiok5]

I can't help wondering if there is the risk of him reacting badly if you tell him at the end of the lesson that you don't plan to teach him any more. Can you have somebody in the house with you if you tell him face to face, or otherwise telephone after the lesson....

Thank you for your advice skylark. I was thinking of phoning him as I would not wish to or have the time to talk to him after his lesson as I would have another pupil waiting. I agree with your comment

I can't help wondering if there is the risk of him reacting badly if you tell him at the end of the lesson that you don't plan to teach him any more

I think he could react very badly and as he is so unpredictable who knows what he might do.

[anacrusis]

Tourette's, maybe?

It doesn't really sound like autism to me - but really, speculation on the cause isn't going to help you make a decision. I can think of a number of options -

You could phone, say that you were a bit puzzled by the apparent difference in what he knew and what he claimed to know, and wonder if he had in fact had more experience than he'd admitted to. Leading from that, you could then say that you'd witnessed a perturbing outburst, and ask if he were prone to this, as it was unsettling. Being upfront is often the best way to find out if you're dealing with a major problem - if the answers seem inconsistent or unplausible, or still don't really reassure you, back out at that point.

You could simply phone saying you could no longer offer tuition, with no explanation, or present a sudden timetable clash.

You could continue, but arrange to have someone in the house during lessons.

For myself, I'd prefer one of the two first - if I were already really uneasy, I'd be inclined to bow out quickly, if merely a bit concerned about him rather than for my own safety, I'd try to find out a bit more - any teacher could justify this by saying they needed to tailor their tuition to the pupil (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

Follow your instincts, and if still in doubt, err on the side of caution.

[all ears]

I agree that mental illness seems to be involved, though of course internet diagnosis has its dangers!

I think you could say quite honestly that there seem to be some non-musical problems affecting his music, and ask to talk with his family or doctor or counselor to see how best you can help him. I don't think it is wise to teach him alone - you need some advice, and you also need protection if his moods are so unstable.

My brother in law is moderately schizophrenic, and is also interested in music. However, after 10 years, he can neither play even a scale on the piano, nor record a "song" with comprehensible pitch or rhythm. Unless your student studied music before he became ill (which is possible, as schizophrenia tends to rear its head in late teens and early 20s in men), I find it hard to imagine a schizophrenic mastering a complex new skill easily in adulthood.

Schizophrenia is not one of the big personality-change diseases - it increases stress, so a schizophrenic who has always been short-tempered will react to stress with anger, but while a schizophrenic may easily become agitated, s/he is not so likely to show extreme changes in mood.

You mention "before retirement". Could it be that your student has early Alzheimer's? He could have forgotten that he ever learned piano. Also, I've heard that sudden rages do occur in the early stages of Alzheimer's - don't know if this is true, though.

My brother-in-law has at various times paid a lot of money for individual music lessons which have not benefitted him at all. Some teachers have taken advantage of his problems to sell him dud instruments for high prices; while serious teachers found him bewildering and frustrating to "teach".

Even so, he and many other mentally ill people are keen to enjoy and study music. I don't think that one-to-one tuition is good unless you have other people around (e.g. you travel to an institution and use their patient lounge, or teach such students at a music school etc) AND you have experience with mentally ill people or somebody to advise you.

My brother-in-law enjoyed simple group keyboard lessons on this basis; and also participated in a group which gave recitals once or twice a year at a sheltered coffee-shop. This kind of group can be very rewarding, but given the nature of mental illness, they need some kind of facilitator to help with social interaction and organization.

[nic]

I think that if you feel uncomfortable or vulnerable with this student in your house then you need to phone him immediately and terminate the lessons.

Trust your instincts - we have them for a reason! It is not worth compromising your safety & wellbeing for an extra 30-60mins wages.

[lottie]

Talk to him about his outbursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Tell him you don't find it acceptable. Talk to him about the fact he does know certain things but not others.

Talk to him. People with mental health problems are still people.

Has he turned his agression on you? Have you any evidence he is dangerous. That's a terrible accusation to make about someone who is approaching you for help with an interest.

You must draw the lines, though, at what you're comfortable with. Explain this to him so he knows which behaviours are acceptable and which are not. I know you're not a mental health worker or a social worker but giving him boundaries will clarify what you find comfortable. If you can't explain this to him then walk away because neither of you are having a good time.

Good luck.

[Melody Amour]

Talk to him about his outbursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Tell him you don't find it acceptable. Talk to him about the fact he does know certain things but not others.

Talk to him. People with mental health problems are still people.

Has he turned his agression on you? Have you any evidence he is dangerous. That's a terrible accusation to make about someone who is approaching you for help with an interest.

You must draw the lines, though, at what you're comfortable with. Explain this to him so he knows which behaviours are acceptable and which are not. I know you're not a mental health worker or a social worker but giving him boundaries will clarify what you find comfortable. If you can't explain this to him then walk away because neither of you are having a good time.

Good luck.

I don't think adagio5 is making any accusations but is just expressing concern. Although he might not have turned his aggression on her, it must be (because we don't know) a possibility that he could and although there might not be any evidence that he is dangerous, because of his behaviour the possibility exists. Of course we all know he is a person but in order to teach him effectively adagio5 has to feel relaxed in his presence. Personally, I think, adagio5, you are brave to consider another lesson. I would want to talk to him on the phone first before he came to the next lesson. Also, adagio5, would you be dreading this lesson every week not know what sort of behaviour this man could display, albeit intentional or unintentional. All I can say is good luck.

[celebworld]

Yikes...He sounds like Jekyll and Hyde. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I would be really worried!!

[skylark]

I don't think there's any obligation on adagiok5 to try to understand this gentleman's problems. That's a job for his friends, family or counsellor to try and help him with. There is also the very real risk that the student following the gentleman may arrive and be exposed to an angry scene, and obviously it's not right to put another student, whether child or adult, in that position.

[katyjay]

adagiok5, my view comes from a past where I was on the receiving end of violent temper outbursts from my piano teacher.

Violence, whether verbal or physical, is just plain not on in the context of a music lesson. No matter the reasons for it.
Anyone who shows violence in that context should not have the opportunity to do so again, and that is what you must tell your pupil.
Whether you do that by phone or in person is up to you, but I would very strongly advise you that if you do so in person, you have someone else with you at the time.

And do not see this person on his own again ever. Your safety is your first concern.

[BusyBee]

Message deleted.

[adagiok5]

[quote name='lottie' post='534056' date='Jun 17 2007, 07:47 AM']
Talk to him about his outbursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Tell him you don't find it acceptable. Talk to him about the fact he does know certain things but not others.

Talk to him. People with mental health problems are still people.

Has he turned his agression on you? Have you any evidence he is dangerous. That's a terrible accusation to make about someone who is approaching you for help with an interest.

You must draw the lines, though, at what you're comfortable with. Explain this to him so he knows which behaviours are acceptable and which are not. I know you're not a mental health worker or a social worker but giving him boundaries will clarify what you find comfortable. If you can't explain this to him then walk away because neither of you are having a good time.

Good luck.
[/quote]



I don't think adagio5 is making any accusations but is just expressing concern. Although he might not have turned his aggression on her, it must be (because we don't know) a possibility that he could and although there might not be any evidence that he is dangerous, because of his behaviour the possibility exists. Of course we all know he is a person but in order to teach him effectively adagio5 has to feel relaxed in his presence. Personally, I think, adagio5, you are brave to consider another lesson. I would want to talk to him on the phone first before he came to the next lesson. Also, adagio5, would you be dreading this lesson every week not know what sort of behaviour this man could display, albeit intentional or unintentional. All I can say is good luck.
[/quote]
I agree with what you say here Melody I was not making accusations just asking others for advice. Thanks for your in put.

I agree that mental illness seems to be involved, though of course internet diagnosis has its dangers!

I think you could say quite honestly that there seem to be some non-musical problems affecting his music, and ask to talk with his family or doctor or counselor to see how best you can help him. I don't think it is wise to teach him alone - you need some advice, and you also need protection if his moods are so unstable.

My brother in law is moderately schizophrenic, and is also interested in music. However, after 10 years, he can neither play even a scale on the piano, nor record a "song" with comprehensible pitch or rhythm. Unless your student studied music before he became ill (which is possible, as schizophrenia tends to rear its head in late teens and early 20s in men), I find it hard to imagine a schizophrenic mastering a complex new skill easily in adulthood.

Schizophrenia is not one of the big personality-change diseases - it increases stress, so a schizophrenic who has always been short-tempered will react to stress with anger, but while a schizophrenic may easily become agitated, s/he is not so likely to show extreme changes in mood.

You mention "before retirement". Could it be that your student has early Alzheimer's? He could have forgotten that he ever learned piano. Also, I've heard that sudden rages do occur in the early stages of Alzheimer's - don't know if this is true, though.

My brother-in-law has at various times paid a lot of money for individual music lessons which have not benefitted him at all. Some teachers have taken advantage of his problems to sell him dud instruments for high prices; while serious teachers found him bewildering and frustrating to "teach".

Even so, he and many other mentally ill people are keen to enjoy and study music. I don't think that one-to-one tuition is good unless you have other people around (e.g. you travel to an institution and use their patient lounge, or teach such students at a music school etc) AND you have experience with mentally ill people or somebody to advise you.

My brother-in-law enjoyed simple group keyboard lessons on this basis; and also participated in a group which gave recitals once or twice a year at a sheltered coffee-shop. This kind of group can be very rewarding, but given the nature of mental illness, they need some kind of facilitator to help with social interaction and organization.

Thank you so much for your response and telling me about your brother in law it has been a great comfort to me

[SueHM]

Very interesting posts, everyone.

I think I would be inclined to phone this chap for a discussion before the next lesson. If there is a simple explanation for his outbursts, like a recent bereavement or whatever, then he will probably be aware that his behaviour overstepped the mark and offer you an apology and explanation.

If however, he is baffled when you express your concerns, then you should be prepared for further episodes.

I am all for helping people with mental health problems, but your own safety and security must come first. At least if he 'loses it' on the phone, you can just replace the receiver - not so easy to deal with alone in your home.

Do let us know what happens..

[skylark]

I am all for helping people with mental health problems, but your own safety and security must come first. At least if he 'loses it' on the phone, you can just replace the receiver - not so easy to deal with alone in your home.

It's extremely difficult knowing how to handle it ... If he does "lose it" on the phone, there's the risk that cutting him off before he's got it all off his chest might enrage him even more and leave him with a festering resentment. If he "loses it", then as long as he's at a safe distance at the end of the phone, it might be better to let him have his rant, then try to not antagonise him any further, and try and part on good terms - without letting him think that there's the remotest possibility that you will ever see him again. I'm mindful of another risk that if he thinks you are understanding about what he chooses to tell you about his problems (bearing in mind that he does not appear to have been entirely straight about his piano background), then he might "latch on" to you and it would become even more difficult to disentangle yourself at a later stage. It's one thing being sympathetic, it's another matter entirely to try to take on the difficulties of helping him - if he really is mentally unstable, then that's a matter which only people with training (and the support/presence of colleagues) should deal with, and the last thing you want is to put yourself at risk.

If/when you do tell him that you're not continuing, it also might be better not to "blame" it on his behaviour, for a number of reasons... It might make him angry again, he might not accept that his behaviour was that bad, he might say "it won't happen again" .... and yes he might be suffering bereavement or some other serious misfortune in his life, but most people suffering very tragic circumstances do not behave like this gentleman. The fact is that in any event, you can't trust what he tells you because he has not even been straight about his piano background.

adagiok5, there is a risk that he might lose it on the phone, so I would have somebody there when you make the call, just in case it shakes you up a bit. And obviously make sure your family/friends in real life know about the situation.

I don't want to be alarmist, and so I couldn't decide whether to mention this, but I remember a case in our local paper a few years ago where a teenage boy had "lost it" with his music teacher and she was badly injured. Obviously it's a very rare occurrence, but to play down the possibility of something happening when signs of anger/frustration have so clearly been expressed, and particularly coupled with the mystery over his piano background ... please don't take the risk adagiok5. Take care x