Ask The Chief Examiner, What would your question be? Options

[notmusimum]

Not being a Teacher maybe I've no right to ask the Chief Examiner anything!

If I had then I think it would have to be about the Recorder Grades. I know it's all been discussed before as to why there is nothing for Descant after Grade 5. However I think I would ask him to look at Grades 6-8 and develop them as Recorder Exams not just Treble. So they would be changed to officially incorporate both or more Recorders not just on an if you want basis as they are now. Perhaps 4 pieces instead of 3 with 2 being played on each instrument?

[ShArOn_StAr92]

Assuming you could ask about theory as well, I would ask why the comments sheets for theory exams are not so detailed as for practical. For example, how would I know if it were my chord recognition that needed work for the next exam? A blanket score for each section of the exam doesn't tell me anything.

if i can ask about theory, besides this, i would also like to ask what's the marking scheme for grade 6,7 and 8 theory papers, like how do the markers decide how many marks they want to give for the various sections..

ShArOn

[mrbouffant]

I would ask all the normal questions which come up hereon about diploma examinations, not least, why does it take so long to get the results compared to other boards?

[janetmaryparker]

I would ask why the exams are not recorded. I think it would be useful to have some scope for moderation of marking between different examiners (as currently happens in other disciplines).

[oboist]

I'm sure I've read articles in Libretto or elsewhere about the training of new examiners to ensure they apply the right criteria and the appropriate standards, but is there any refresher training for more experienced examiners, to ensure that things don't change over time and the level of expectation in exams is consistent?

The answer to this is "yes". Colleagues of mine who examine go every year to examiner training sessions and if they don't go, they worry that they won't get invited to examine the next year. So they go. Also, we were told at a seminar I attended, that every examiner is moderated (ie has another senior examiner watch them do a day's "live" examining 1:1) every 2 years and mark forms are, of course, read before they go out and are checked. So it seems to me the ABRSM does its best to ensure its panel of examiners are kept up to speed.

It doesn't seem to be a question of once you're qualified you're never checked out again.

[sbhoa]

Also TG have just produced a transparent set of criteria required to reach certain standards for each exam. I would like to see the ABRSM follow suit as this is an excellent development.

I find the marking criteria in 'These Music Exams' pretty clear actually.
I'm not sure about the TG marking being split as it seems to give too little scope for 'high' and 'low' marking in each band (pass, merit, distinction).

[AnotherPianist]

I would ask why the exams are not recorded. I think it would be useful to have some scope for moderation of marking between different examiners (as currently happens in other disciplines).

Was just about to post this as a result of another thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

Specifically, does she consider the appeals procedure really gives candidates a fair deal? I understand that recording exams would incur expense and effort; but given that consistency of standard for every candidate is the most important thing to making an exam system valid, would it not be worth the effort, as it is for diploma exams? I realise that the system doesn't often fail (or at least this isn't often reported to have failed) but it does sometimes, and for those people this is important. For others too: it's never failed for me but I'd like to know that should it do there's something that can be done. Is the solution of giving the candidate a free resit at the next session (putting their learning on hold, or at least slowing it) really a fair outcome for a successful appeal? I realise that this is all that can be done with the current system, but a recording would offer the opportunity for a fair re-mark.

I seem to recall a while ago reading an article on how pieces were graded (libretto perhaps?) but it was quite vague and concentrated on the procedure, i.e. we have a pannel of experts and they decided 'somehow' rather than the specific criteria they use, to be honest I think it's mostly down to expert judgement and there aren't any specific rules, otherwise we wouldn't get the variation between grading of pieces in different years.

Not being a Teacher maybe I've no right to ask the Chief Examiner anything!

Nonsence, as a parent and payer for exams you have as much right as everyone else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

[jod]

Also TG have just produced a transparent set of criteria required to reach certain standards for each exam. I would like to see the ABRSM follow suit as this is an excellent development.

I find the marking criteria in 'These Music Exams' pretty clear actually.
I'm not sure about the TG marking being split as it seems to give too little scope for 'high' and 'low' marking in each band (pass, merit, distinction).

Having read it I find it a little woolley. It would be nice to have clearer criteria for each grade. Each mark schme is of course up to each board, but I would like a clearer indication of expectations so I can pass these on to my pupils.

As for the new TG scheme, one thing it definately is is transparent. We all need to wait and see how it works in practice.

[dacapo]

Is the solution of giving the candidate a free resit at the next session (putting their learning on hold, or at least slowing it) really a fair outcome for a successful appeal?

I think that system is an abomination, and have said so to the board from probably about ten years ago when I was actively involved in a "successful" appeal. I think only one of the considerable number of candidates who had been failed by the first examiner took up the option of an immediate retake, which means that all the rest had the setback and lost the full examination fee. At least one of the candidates who failed (after having achieved distinction marks in earlier grades) was absolutely devastated and needed her confidence rebuilt over a long period before she was able to consider taking another exam. Luckily she was young enough to recover with good parental and teacher support and is now happily playing violin as a very good adult amateur.

I would like all candidates whose appeals are upheld to be offered the choice of an immediate full refund of their fees or a credit for the full amount to be set against a future entry at any grade in any subject. The financial cost to the board might be greater but goodwill is priceless

[AnotherPianist]

I would like all candidates whose appeals are upheld to be offered the choice of an immediate full refund of their fees or a credit for the full amount to be set against a future entry at any grade in any subject. The financial cost to the board might be greater but goodwill is priceless

I don't think I'd even find this a satisfactory outcome: the candidate has not gained anything at all, and has suffered a horrible setback potentially threatening their will to carry on playing. A full refund would be fine if the problem were just financial but it's the disappointment the candidate has had to face and all their effort in preparing. I know if I was in this situation I'd be a lot more upset about the effort I'd put in and the result of the exam than the exam fee. I'm not for a second suggesting compensation or anything (society is bad enough for this as it is) but a recording of the exam to be listened to, with the correct result being given following that would be a perfect solution: the candidate doesn't have to go through the exam again, prepare for a further three months and gets the fair service they deserve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

[La_Chopiniste_]

On behalf of a friend , I'd ask if examiners are so accurate that some students - including this friend - may fail with 99 marks , just one mark froma pass ?

And I'd also like to ask another question concerning theory , composing question. On what basis is this question corrected ? Maybe the composition is found terrible , but I beleive this is a point of view . People made fun of Beethoven's compostions at the begining , before they really realised how great and immortal they are.

[dacapo]

I would like all candidates whose appeals are upheld to be offered the choice of an immediate full refund of their fees or a credit for the full amount to be set against a future entry at any grade in any subject. The financial cost to the board might be greater but goodwill is priceless

I don't think I'd even find this a satisfactory outcome: the candidate has not gained anything at all, and has suffered a horrible setback potentially threatening their will to carry on playing.

I think if you read my whole message again I hope you will see that I wasn't suggesting that this was a satisfactory outcome overall. I suppose it's what I regard as an absolute minimum initial action on the Board's part to avoid compounding the emotional and potential long term musical damage by punishing people financially in addition.

A full refund would be fine if the problem were just financial but it's the disappointment the candidate has had to face and all their effort in preparing. I know if I was in this situation I'd be a lot more upset about the effort I'd put in and the result of the exam than the exam fee.

That would probably be the case for many people who have paid their own fees, but much of my exam accompanying is for children from non-musical families, not necessarily able to afford the exam fees easily, so the present system really adds injury to insult and may put pressure on child and teacher to retake the exam immediately when it's quite likely not the best thing to do either emotionally or musically.

I'm not for a second suggesting compensation or anything (society is bad enough for this as it is) but a recording of the exam to be listened to, with the correct result being given following that would be a perfect solution: the candidate doesn't have to go through the exam again, prepare for a further three months and gets the fair service they deserve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

I've no idea if there are plans for all exams to be recorded, though I agree it could provide a useful safety-net. Meanwhile I would like to see the immediate financial response implemented, leaving people to pick up the pieces without financial penalty and start again when they feel ready.

[chopsticks]

I would like to ask why it takes so long to get a result for a practical exam....

I take my exams with Trinity for two reasons, (having had children that went through ABRSM and Trinity)

1. I get the results the minute the examiner leaves the centre, meaning I learn from the feedback, as I can still remember what I have done! This is the most important reason, (as the longer the time the less clearly I remember what happened).

2. Despite the fact that I am learning theory for myself I think the fact they insist on having taken a theory exam before you can take a practical exam is not on. You are marking a practical exam and the ability to play.. (It could penalise people that have real acaedemic problems who can in fact play instinctively brilliantly).

[BabyBanana]

I would like to ask him on B3 in Grade 6, Vals Poetico by Grandos. Why they insist on us having pedals when there is no pedals mark there? That lost me many many marks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) If they indicated that in the first place then maybe! Possibly maybe I wouldn't have to retake the exam the second time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[dacapo]

I would like to ask him on B3 in Grade 6, Vals Poetico by Grandos. Why they insist on us having pedals when there is no pedals mark there? That lost me many many marks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) If they indicated that in the first place then maybe! Possibly maybe I wouldn't have to retake the exam the second time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I wonder whose idea it is that taking the same grade exam three times is a good use of time or money. Actually there are very very few situations where you have to take grade exams at all.