So Confused With Tenuto And Marcato Options

[ChrisC]

In my experience, a note with a dash on it often means play with extra emphasis ("lean" on the note), and if there are several dashed notes in succession it also implies a little separation between the notes, which enhances the emphasis. But, as with most of these things, it depends on the context, and in the end what counts is what sounds best.

Chris

[Lone Ranger]

Yes, I agree. As far as piano goes, my understanding is that the dash above or below the note is the least of the accents

- a leaning note

> is next in status and it is a moderate accent

/\ is the strongest of the accents and means bang it hard!

LR

[Holz Gedeckt]

Tenuto means held - i.e. sustained. It means that the note should be sustained for its full written time-value and, indeed, sometimes even beyond. Nothing more!

As the meerkat says in that television advert, "Simples"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dulciana]

My understanding of tenuto is that, while held for its full value, the note should not be slurred to the subsequent note.

[petrat]

There are so many things in music that cannot be conveyed with complete accuracy by signs and symbols alone. There are certain conventions that have developed over the centuries and what means a certain thing to one instrument will not necessarily mean the same to another. We can offer a textbook definition but that would not be the full story. A recorder player will interpret a tenuto mark differently from a keyboard player for example and both will differ from the interpretation of that of a string player.
In the baroque age there was a huge artillery of ornaments. Many of these have died out over the years and we are the poorer because of that, although this is a topic that merits a new thread perhaps. (Don't worry; this rodent isn't going to start one!) I think that composers may use tenuto marks now to suggest what they don't want as much as what they do.

[heartsong]

Thanks for all your replies!

I am confused when I encounter tenuto marks in music of the Baroque period (my students' exam pieces). These marks are placed over /under crotchets which are to be lightly detached. Ever since I was young, I played these notes with tenuto markings with a slight emphasis and never once questioned its definition. But now that I started teaching, I got confused when I read the definition of the tenuto sign. "To hold for its full value or sometimes even more" isn't the same as "giving the note a slight emphasis". (How do I play crotchets giving them their full values ? I would be playing legato crotchets! ) So I started questioning whether a dash refers to a tenuto mark or something else. I thought perhaps I was wrong when I read the book "For All Piano Teachers" which mentions that MARCATO is indicated by a dash over/under a note.

So, does this mean that I cannot take definition literally? But if I interpret Tenuto mark as giving the note a slight emphasis, slightly separating the notes so marked, won't that make it a MARCATO sign instead? To conclude, can I take it that a dash can mean tenuto and also marcato, depending on the context? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[sarah123]

Heartsong, do you play the piano or something else?

The impression I get is that the dash means marcato (or something similar) for piano, but tenuto for everything else.

[petrat]

As you refer to a Baroque piece these will almost certainly be editorial marks anyway and as such are suggestions only. Play it in a style that is in keeping with the conventions of the period and bear in mind that these marks are more an indication of how not to play the notes rather than otherwise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Holz Gedeckt]

How do I play crotchets giving them their full values ? I would be playing legato crotchets!

Yes, you would. Precisely!

It means that you shouldn't shorten them by making them detached in any way.

[PianoDoodler]

Thanks for all your replies!

I am confused when I encounter tenuto marks in music of the Baroque period (my students' exam pieces). These marks are placed over /under crotchets which are to be lightly detached. Ever since I was young, I played these notes with tenuto markings with a slight emphasis and never once questioned its definition. But now that I started teaching, I got confused when I read the definition of the tenuto sign.

Hehe. You and me both. I thought I knew what tenuto meant until I read this thread.

So, The Consensus appears to be: a tenuto mark means whatever a particular composer\editor\performer wants it to mean at any one given moment; that meaning might change with the next given moment.

This makes total sense to me. My job as a performer is to interpret the score in front of me. To be honest, I ignore most of the printed stuff and go with my own instincts.

So, to me tenuto means whatever I want it to mean at anyone given moment........................

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Holz Gedeckt]

So, The Consensus appears to be: a tenuto mark means whatever a particular composer\editor\performer wants it to mean at any one given moment; that meaning might change with the next given moment.

Aaarrrggghhh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dulciana]

How do I play crotchets giving them their full values ? I would be playing legato crotchets!

Yes, you would. Precisely!

It means that you shouldn't shorten them by making them detached in any way.

Ok, just to be pedantic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , how would you define the difference between tenuto and sostenuto? (Leaving aside volume, because there's clearly more to it than that.)

And what about the tenuto mark that's on a single crotchet placed in isolation, rather than a string of crotchets, all with tenuto marks, when the passage is marked legato? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Czerny]

How do I play crotchets giving them their full values ? I would be playing legato crotchets!

Yes, you would. Precisely!

It means that you shouldn't shorten them by making them detached in any way.

But heartsong is talking specifically about Baroque music where it's common practice to detach crotchets, particularly in the bass line. It's clearly sylistically appropriate to do so, and it's a very common instruction in editorial notes. I'm assuming one would do something similar on the organ, no?

Not quite sure about this idea of the dash meaning marcato just for piano. There's already a mark for marcato which is used in piano music. Isn't there?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

My understanding (just to confuse things further) is that tenuto can mean 'held' (as it is, I think, the past participle of the verb tenere meaning 'to hold') and also 'stressed' (as opposed to accented). Which of these meanings is more appropriate (or it can be a combination of the two) should be reasonably clear from the context (and/or the editor's notes).

[Dulciana]

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads...697/Tenuto.html

I hope I'm allowed to post a link to another forum. Just to show that there is no great consensus here either! I've never seen this forum before, but have just googled 'tenuto' to see what came up, and, along with this thread that we're in at the moment, so did the above!

[DaisyChain]

Not quite sure about this idea of the dash meaning marcato just for piano. There's already a mark for marcato which is used in piano music. Isn't there?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

This for strong marcato..
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Music-strong-marcato.png/120px-Music-strong-marcato.png)

This for marcato..
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Music-marcato.png/120px-Music-marcato.png)