Advice for parent of would-be oboist Options

[soccermom]

For the last couple of years my 12 year old has been keen on learning the oboe. So far I have been resisting. She already plays the piano and cello and has singing lessons and she's not doing enough practice on those, without adding another instrument. But if at some point she can convince me that a third instrument is viable, I'd like to know a bit more about the various pros and cons of the oboe. I know next to nothing about the oboe - or indeed any woodwind instrument - though I do love the sound of it when played well.

A few questions:

What make and model would anyone recommend or should I avoid (I'd probably go for second hand)?
Can you play with braces (she has her first appointment with an orthodontist next month)?
While I'm thinking about it would it be helpful (or unhelpful) to get her playing the recorder? I have descants and trebles in the house, plus some recorder music, (she has played the descant a bit, but only at a very basic level).
What do I need to know about reeds and maintenance?
What else do I need to know?

Thanks

[sbhoa]

I don't know anything about the oboe but if it's oboe she wants to play why think of adding recorder unless she also wants to play that?

[Scooby Doo]

Don't you mean a fourth instrument? If she isn't doing enough practice on the three she is already learning, surely you don't want to embark on yet another.

Braces + oboe = tricky combination, as the lips have to be stretched over the teeth and braces - unlikely to work well, especially for a beginner. Maybe this is the excuse you need to put it off for a while. I would think that recorder would be a good starting point - get her used to fingering, breathing etc, and it wouldn't involve any outlay on an instrument, and would probably be manageable with braces.

I don't know much about makes of oboe, but I do know reeds seem to cause endless crises and expense!

[soccermom]

Don't you mean a fourth instrument? If she isn't doing enough practice on the three she is already learning, surely you don't want to embark on yet another.

Braces + oboe = tricky combination, as the lips have to be stretched over the teeth and braces - unlikely to work well, especially for a beginner. Maybe this is the excuse you need to put it off for a while. I would think that recorder would be a good starting point - get her used to fingering, breathing etc, and it wouldn't involve any outlay on an instrument, and would probably be manageable with braces.

I don't know much about makes of oboe, but I do know reeds seem to cause endless crises and expense!

No, I don't want her to embark on another, which is why I have been saying no for the last 2 years. She will probably be stopping singing lessons at Christmas, but she hasn't done much by the way of singing practice, so giving up won't free up lots of time and we won't be able to sell the instrument to help pay for another!

Sounds like braces might give me the excuse I need to put it off for a bit longer.

The only reason I thought of recorder is because we happen to have some lying around the house doing nothing, and I thought it might help if one day she does take up the oboe. She wouldn't have lessons but I'd be able to help her a bit.

[RAM]

Don't you mean a fourth instrument? If she isn't doing enough practice on the three she is already learning, surely you don't want to embark on yet another.?

Braces + oboe = tricky combination, as the lips have to be stretched over the teeth and braces - unlikely to work well, especially for a beginner. Maybe this is the excuse you need to put it off for a while. I would think that recorder would be a good starting point - get her used to fingering, breathing etc, and it wouldn't involve any outlay on an instrument, and would probably be manageable with braces.

I don't know much about makes of oboe, but I do know reeds seem to cause endless crises and expense!

No, I don't want her to embark on another, which is why I have been saying no for the last 2 years. ?She will probably be stopping singing lessons at Christmas, but she hasn't done much by the way of singing practice, so giving up won't free up lots of time and we won't be able to sell the instrument to help pay for another!

Sounds like braces might give me the excuse I need to put it off for a bit longer.

The only reason I thought of recorder is because we happen to have some lying around the house doing nothing, and I thought it might help if one day she does take up the oboe. ?She wouldn't have lessons but I'd be able to help her a bit.

As far as I'm aware (an oboeist can come and correct me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) the recorder, F or C, shares no fingering similarities with the oboe, not to mention that the blowing is completely different as well. The recorder is commonly a stepping stone for the clarinet, although as I'm finding out, it's a beautiful instrument in its own right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)?

[Roseau]

As far as I'm aware (an oboeist can come and correct me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) the recorder, F or C, shares no fingering similarities with the oboe, not to mention that the blowing is completely different as well. The recorder is commonly a stepping stone for the clarinet, although as I'm finding out, it's a beautiful instrument in its own right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)?

Oboist here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
There are some similarities with recorder fingerings - you put all the fingers of both hands down to get middle C, while D, E, G, A, B in the first octave are the same on both instruments and there is a forked F as one possible F fingering. Other fingerings are different.

The breathing is completely different (my teacher often tells me to stop playing my oboe as thought it is a recorder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ); the oboe uses up very little air, and at very high pressure, you have to breath out before you can breath in etc. Tonguing is also different because you tongue against the reed. I don't see the recorder as having been a particularly useful stepping stone to the oboe - no more useful than the piano or the violin and I am inclined to say that it has even got in the way of me understanding certain things since I wrongly assumed that they were the same on both the recorder and the oboe.

It is possible(although not very comfortable) to play the oboe with braces but probably not a good idea to start playing the oboe with braces and bottom braces are more of a problem than top braces.

Howarths' website will give you a good idea of the price you can expect to pay for an instrument. And as someone else said you will need to factor in the cost of reeds on top of that.

[Splog]

I remember a book I read once, called something like How to select the best instrument for your child - which said that the oboe shouldn't really be played by children. Something to do with pressure in the head I think. I'll probably get shouted down here and told that's a load of rubbish, but if mum is looking for an excuse.....

[Roseau]

I remember a book I read once, called something like How to select the best instrument for your child - which said that the oboe shouldn't really be played by children. Something to do with pressure in the head I think. I'll probably get shouted down here and told that's a load of rubbish, but if mum is looking for an excuse.....

There is no proven evidence of this but if you're looking for excuses...
My oboe teacher is bald. Once he had a little girl with very long hair having a trial lesson when the French horn teacher came in and said to the girl "you don't want to learn the oboe - look what it will do to your hair" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[flobiano]

A few questions:

What make and model would anyone recommend or should I avoid (I'd probably go for second hand)?
Can you play with braces (she has her first appointment with an orthodontist next month)?
While I'm thinking about it would it be helpful (or unhelpful) to get her playing the recorder? I have descants and trebles in the house, plus some recorder music, (she has played the descant a bit, but only at a very basic level).
What do I need to know about reeds and maintenance?
What else do I need to know?

Thanks

I would definitely go for second hand (or rent to start with) and a student model will be fine to start with. Howarth models are very good.

I would also recommend having a specialist oboe teacher who will be able to help with reeds.

I do love the oboe, and I love playing it - there is some amazing music and I love the sound BUT there are a couple of points bearing in mind before you commit to it.

I've found that the oboe is very unforgiving of irregular practice. My experience of flute and piano is that you can get away with intermittent practice and missing a day is not really a big deal. This is not the case with the oboe when just a day off is noticeable, especially at the start, and it can take a few days to regain the losses after a holiday.

Maybe also worth knowing that it won't be cheap - the instruments are expensive, reeds are expensive (and will only last a few weeks), due to it being a less popular instrument the music is often expensive and then, of course, if you decide you want to start adjusting/ making reeds yourself then that is a whole other set of toys to buy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I hope this helps!

[Barry Toner]

Be grateful that your daughter is this keen on music! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

One of my sons was highly talented in lots of musical directions, in terms of being a very good singer (RSCM St Nicholas award), and also playing piano and violin. Then at the age of around 13 (too many years ago to be precise), he asked if he could have a go at my oboe. (I have had an oboe for many years - just never had time or inclination to get good at it until I retired!) There was a reasonable teacher fairly locally whom we knew (husband of the piano teacher), so he started having lessons and learning properly (unlike his dad). He got on well and got through grade 4 on the oboe, then came home from his lesson one day saying: "Dad, my oboe teacher says that I'm now a better player than your oboe". That meant shelling out rather a lot of money on a second hand graduate level instrument, which he then played in the county youth wind orchestra (and still has and plays occasionally).

Oboes come in two different systems, by the way, which are difficult to switch between. The difference is only in the fingering for Bb and C natural, but these are key muscle memories which become deeply embedded. The continent and USA almost exclusively use the conservatoire system (pressing RH1 to turn A to Bb and B to C natural), whereas the UK uses a thumbplate system (releasing the thumbplate makes the same transitions). Some more expensive instruments are dual-system, which means you can use either.

One other point to consider is that oboes are expensive, both to buy and to play, as reeds are around ?10 each and don't last for ever, even without accidents which can happen to anybody in a fraction of a second. The keywork on the instrument is delicate, so make sure you have a good woodwind repair shop locally.

On the plus side, oboe players are rare animals and you get more opportunity to shine. Flutes and clarinets, by comparion, are a dime a dozen. If your daughter likes being the star of the show, she is much more likely to have the chance to lead on the oboe than on anything else. The windband that I play in has around a dozen flutes, 8 or 9 clarinets, but I am the only oboe. Similar considerations would apply to youth orchestras also.

[soccermom]

I remember a book I read once, called something like How to select the best instrument for your child - which said that the oboe shouldn't really be played by children. Something to do with pressure in the head I think. I'll probably get shouted down here and told that's a load of rubbish, but if mum is looking for an excuse.....

There is no proven evidence of this but if you're looking for excuses...
My oboe teacher is bald. Once he had a little girl with very long hair having a trial lesson when the French horn teacher came in and said to the girl "you don't want to learn the oboe - look what it will do to your hair" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

My daughter also has very long hair, but I fear she is too old to be be taken in by this one!

[soccermom]

Thanks all. Lots of useful advice and food for thought here.

I read the "How to select the best instrument for your child" book years ago. At the time the oboe wasn't an option because the children were too young, so I'd forgotten what it said about that. The message I took away from the book was that the right instrument for your child is the one that they really wanted to play. It's the reason why, after 9 years of nagging, I finally agreed to let my older daughter play the harp.

I think the braces are likely to give me the excuse I need for a while, and I might use that time as a testing period for her to prove to me that she is capable of doing two decent practices a day. Because if she can't (and she's not doing at the moment), then there's no way she can have another instrument.

In the longer term, if we do go down this road, it sounds like I ought to be looking for a thumbplate system (as I wouldn't be going for an expensive duel-system one). Something like a Howarth S10 to start?
I would definitely go for a specialist teacher.

Reeds sound depressing. Cello strings are certainly are not cheap, but at least they last more than a few weeks!

[MrsB]

I play aboe and it is a great instrument. But it definitely requires dedication. I love playing it as an adult and miss it if I can't practice every day. But I do remember as a teenager that I often didn't feel that way and so I can see how fitting it in around her existing instruments could prove a real challenge, especially if she doesn't play them enough as it is.

The Howarth S10 is a great beginners oboe. I'd recommend that you start off with a hired instrument if you do go ahead. That way you don't spend several hundred pounds only to find she changes her mind.

[floboe]

I have been playing the oboe for around 6 years now, I absolutely love it. Although it was difficult when I started, I quickly learnt. When I started I didnt have a clue how expensive it was going to be. I started off on a rented county instrument which was rubbish and needed a good service. About 2 months after I started my parents forked out on a buffet crampon student model. This got me right the way to grade 8 when I bought a new one about 6 months before the exam.

I now spend around ?20 on one reed compared to c.?6 when I started. I am having lessons on making reeds but I havent had much joy. I had a general woodwind teacher before who was good, but only now that I have a professional oboist as a teacher do I realise how much I was missing out on.

[Arundodonuts]

I remember a book I read once, called something like How to select the best instrument for your child - which said that the oboe shouldn't really be played by children. Something to do with pressure in the head I think. I'll probably get shouted down here and told that's a load of rubbish, but if mum is looking for an excuse.....

That'll be the one which includes these gems:

"In the hands of an outstanding professional musician?..the oboe can sound exquisite. Played by most children who are learning, the sound is unpleasant and rasping?. If your child is thing about playing the oboe?. there is only one word of advice: Don't"

"The aperture between the two pieces of reed is so tight that the player has to force the breath through. Children may experience headaches from the back pressure which this causes, even a healthy teenager".

"The oboe is not for generous extroverts: determined, tight-lipped, stubborn children do best".

All of which is misleading at best and drivel at worst.

The oboe has a reputation for being a very difficult instrument to learn. I suspect it is no harder or easier than many others, they all have their difficulties. I do agree with MrsB though, the oboe does require dedication. It needs playing regularly (ideally every day) especially early on when developing the strength and stamina in the facial muscles required to maintain the embouchure. This early stage is probably enough to sort out whether someone is really sufficiently interested to put in the effort.

The Howarth S10 already mentioned is certainly a fine instrument and the Buffet student model floboe mentions is OK too. Given the cost of oboes I would certainly consider rental initially. Reeds are quite pricey, probably ?10-12 these days for something suitable for a beginner. You would need two or three to rotate the use of them and expect 3 to last 3-6 months in the early stage if well looked after (and they are fragile).

I would consider a specialist oboe teacher to be a must.

Personally I think the recorder is worth while considering as an introduction. It does at least give some indication of what it's like to play something by blowing through it and descant fingering is similar(ish). Of course the recorder is a fine instrument in its own right and your daughter may take to it for its own sake.

So, it's expensive, requires dedication and good tuition. But it's the best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)