Why do people sign lesson policies without reading them!?, Another rant thread, sorry... Options

[Dugazon]

Things that work without fail (or weed out the ones who are a constant hassle pretty quickly) are withholding the service, or introducing late payment fees.

1. Ask them for payment AT THE START of the lesson. If they don't have the money, send them to get it (cash machine?), of course without making up for the lost time.

2. If that's not an option, send them a PayPal invoice via e-mail, payable on the same day (all my students have to put their e-mail down in the very first lesson), and pass on the PayPal fees (roundabout 3.5%) to them. I have this in my Terms of Service actually, and I really enforce it. People don't like to pay extra, and they usually make sure they never forget again.

3. If all else fails: Withhold the service and send them home (they still need to pay for that missed lesson the next time of course, that's why I would only recommend this in case of repeat offenders who are close to getting the boot anyway).

Whilst this might seem harsh to some, it is what every other business does. You don't march into a shop, get all your goods/services, and then expect to march out without paying and bringing the money whenever you feel like it.

Don't be passive-aggressive about it and start resenting the student. Do something so it doesn't happen, and stop apologising for it. Stop thinking you "need" the student - that causes dependency and fear to speak out.

For every student who treats you badly, there are at least 5 who value what you do and are far more deserving of that space. Don't lose sleep over it!

[Maizie]

People don't like to pay extra, and they usually make sure they never forget again.

My vet used to give a discout for paying on the day, with the full fee due when you got the invoice in the post. A lot of people went for the delayed paying option (it was not a huge discount).
They then changed their procedure - routine was pay on the day, with a charge for delayed payment in the post. They didn't change the actual fees, they just changed the labels on them.
And suddenly nobody wants to pay later! Because they don't want to pay a 'penalty', although they were happy to pay it when they thought it was normal and could have had a discount (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(So technically, the change meant the vet got lower income; however, it was paid on the day it was due. The practice decided that money in the bank now was better than a promise of more money later on).

So, if I ever get to any position of having to bill people, I will always have a late payment penalty rather than an ealy payment discount (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[ExpressYourself]

Except you'll get the hassle of people paying late but the discounted rate. Is easier to defend a loss of discount than an added penalty.

However,
Last time I put my choir subs up I let people stay at the old rate if they paid by a deadline. Unfortunately people just turned up after the deadline with a cheque for the lower amount and I felt too embarrassed to ask for the extra!

[sbhoa]

Though I am grateful to my own teachers who have been tolerant of those (rare) occasions when I have genuinely forgotten to put the money in my bag. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) Being a person who doesn't routinely carry my purse/debit card around I can't fix it by going to a cash machine and if my teachers were rigidly enforcing rules it would mean having to forfeit the lesson. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[ExpressYourself]

On two occasions I've forgotten to pay my teacher. The first time I offered to go home immediately after my lesson and return with the money. The second time (I actually had the money in my pocket!) I texted an apology and offered to drive over with it in an envelope. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Everyone can forget but "next week" is a bit rude.

One of my students has forgotten a couple of time and lives miles away so I just say "next week is fine, unless you're passing" and they always pop it round the next day.

[Dugazon]

<snip> and I felt too embarrassed to ask for the extra!

... and therein lies the problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I used to be same though, you only toughen up over the years. These days, I am really rather blunt about it - and feel all the better for it.

Always good to remind ourselves that it's actually the person forgetting to pay on time who should feel embarrassed, not us for asking.

sbhoa, you are of course right, and I know that honest mistakes happen. I think though it's important to be rather straightforward at the start. New students tend to think that if it's ok once, it will be okay again. There is such a thing as discretion, and no one prevents you from using it with longstanding, usually reliable students.

The question is also: Why do people so often forget their purse when they go for their music lesson, but rarely if they go to the shops (and if they do, would they expect to just walk out without paying?)? I honestly came to believe that there are some people out there who don't perceive this as a problem, and it is up to the teacher to correct that view.

I hate to say it, but I think the problem lies on the teacher's side if they're too soft (been there, got the T-Shirt). It is a fact of life that there are people out there who are inconsiderate or plain rude, but it is OUR mistake if we put up with it and do nothing apart from getting stressed that toughening up might scare them off. So what? Let them go - putting up with any type of behaviour reeks of desperation, and some people are very good at sensing how far they can push you. It's really not worth it.

And in your case: You would still have the chance to pay me on the same day (PayPal), so the lesson would not necessarily be forfeit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Let's also not forget we are usually talking about a minority of students who behave that way (although just one of them can annoy the h'ell out of you and make you forget about all the lovely ones). Not worth getting stomach ulcers because of them. Be tough, and if they moan about it, they are free to take their business elsewhere.

[ymapazagain]

Well I just lost a student over this.

An incredibly promising young student who is a real pleasure to teach.

I'm very disappointed right now.

Her parents replied to my email saying as they're likely to be away for most holidays they've decided to terminate her lessons now. Um...what?! All they have to do is advise me when they're going to be away and that's absolutely fine! Is it so hard for them to think a couple of weeks in advance and let me know!? Are they seriously going to terminate her lessons because they're incapable of organising themselves?!

It infuriates me when I see parents like this. She clearly loves her lessons and practices really hard. Then over something so simple they will take that away from her. It's awful.

And I know exactly what will happen now...if they continue to get her piano lessons they will find a young inexperienced teacher who will bow to their every whim. In return the poor girl is likely to be taught very poorly and miss out on what could have been an amazing musical experience. (I live in a small city and know most teachers here...there are a lot of appalling teachers whose students can barely read and have atrocious technique after years of study. Any teacher worth learning from will have a policy much like mine).

It's a shame.

[GMc]

Never mind, hopefully you will find a good replacement. They will get the sort of teacher their attitude deserves. You can't pander to them just because she is good - word will spread that you are a soft touch. But hopefully your warning to them included praise for her work ethic and talent and hinted that it would be a shame if she ended up with a less than adequate teacher because of this.

But a word of warning if you really did a mass email. I would be very disappointed and have serious words with a teacher who included me in a mass email if I thought we had a good relationship, was paying on time and had stuck to your conditions (which are too flexible BTW - your problem is that your flexibility is the thin end of the wedge - try the 10 in advance and offer one reschedule solely at your convenience on one day of the holidays set in advance IF you can fit it in but not guaranteed). Even if you did throw in a bit about thanks to the ones that behave themselves.

I would apologise for that to your decent punters if I were you and explain that you were really frustrated with the lousy tiny minority. They may feel like I would but not have the guts to bring it up and one day that will work to your disadvantage.

[Norway]

Well I just lost a student over this.

An incredibly promising young student who is a real pleasure to teach.

I'm very disappointed right now.

Her parents replied to my email saying as they're likely to be away for most holidays they've decided to terminate her lessons now. Um...what?! All they have to do is advise me when they're going to be away and that's absolutely fine! Is it so hard for them to think a couple of weeks in advance and let me know!? Are they seriously going to terminate her lessons because they're incapable of organising themselves?!

It infuriates me when I see parents like this. She clearly loves her lessons and practices really hard. Then over something so simple they will take that away from her. It's awful.

And I know exactly what will happen now...if they continue to get her piano lessons they will find a young inexperienced teacher who will bow to their every whim. In return the poor girl is likely to be taught very poorly and miss out on what could have been an amazing musical experience. (I live in a small city and know most teachers here...there are a lot of appalling teachers whose students can barely read and have atrocious technique after years of study. Any teacher worth learning from will have a policy much like mine).

It's a shame.

I feel your pain! I recently moved on a lovely hard working pupil who I'd been teaching for years (a decision, which I'd been putting off having to make for ages) because the parents thought it was fine to repeatedly mess me about. When I addressed the issue, it was clear that they just didn't care. I felt so disrespected that I had no choice but to quit. It's really gutting isn't it!

[Viledin4u]

I think it is more likely that teachers will be taken advantage of, and not always intentionally, if their terms are not completely clear.
I pay for violin lessons on the day by cheque, but this also allows my teacher to cancel or postpone short notice if I have to. This arrangement works and has also allowed me to cancel short notice. If I turned up on the day without payment I would also expect not to be taught.
I pay in advance for 4 piano lessons and if I turned up without paying in this agreement I would expect to not be taught...this arrangement is also fine.
My daughters violin teacher changed her agreement and arranged things so that T and Cs were signed and we had to pay monthly by by standing order. We didn't want to commit to paying like this as we couldn't attend during school holidays so moved on to another teacher. The way she ran things was fine too, just didn't suit us, but suited many other parents as showed the teacher's commitment to lessons.
All are fine. Different teachers/parents will want diffrerent things. Teachers should clearly state their terms and conditions and payment options. This is good business management. If things go wrong teachers should look to themselves and their business management arrangements first ( ...I say this from experience of running a small tutoring business). If a teacher's system is open to being abused it probably will be at some point.

[Tixylix]

I saw an advert for a local teacher online who specifically stated that they had no T&Cs, I think as a selling point. Isn't that just asking to be taken advantage of? I don't have any written contract with my current teacher but the terms were discussed in the first lesson and I pay for blocks of 4 lessons in advance, I would not expect to have a lesson if I turned up without payment.

A former teacher of mine had a very detailed contract which included things like a list of necessary supplies for the violin (rosin, spare strings etc.) and a minimum of 30 minutes of daily practice expected - one particular phrase I remember is "without regular practice, progress will not be made and the teacher cannot be held responsible for this". I recall that as well as my mum I had to read it and sign it - obviously my mum was responsible for sorting out payment and buying the equipment but I was told that as well as being aware of the rules which were relevant to me I should never sign anything without reading and understanding it, a lesson which has served me well to this day.

[Roseau]

I was told that as well as being aware of the rules which were relevant to me I should never sign anything without reading and understanding it, a lesson which has served me well to this day.

Apologies for going slightly off topic but whenever you sign anything in France you have to put "lu et approuve" in front of you signature (ie "read and approved"). The first time I had to do this was when I opened a bank account. The bank manager handed me the form and a pen, so I started reading... He then asked me what I was doing so I said "reading" to which he replied "Just because you have to write you've read it, doesn't mean you have to read it" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Seer_Green]

Isn't that just asking to be taken advantage of?

Maybe not; some people just seem to do absolutely fine, no problems without any T&Cs (I'd like to know how they manage it, but I know some do!).

[ymapazagain]

Teachers should clearly state their terms and conditions and payment options. This is good business management. If things go wrong teachers should look to themselves and their business management arrangements first ( ...I say this from experience of running a small tutoring business). If a teacher's system is open to being abused it probably will be at some point.

I'm not sure how much clearer I could make it. When students first contact me regarding lessons I always arrange things by email (if they've called I get their email address). My first email to them always contains a link to my lesson policy and I clearly ask them to write back and confirm that they agree with the terms of the policy. I don't book a lesson until they've said that.

Then, after the several week trial period I ask them if they're happy to continue with lessons, I hand them the lesson policy in person along with their first invoice and ask them to read over it again, sign it, and bring it back next week.

If they haven't actually read the policy by this point then a) they've lied to me, and b) they're...well...I'll be polite...

[GMc]

3 out of four of our last teachers have had no T+Cs. And the fourth one only vaguely - didn't turn out well! The without T+Cs all bill termly (one in advance, two in arrears). All make up occasional missed lessons (usually missed cos at some music camp etc) at their convenience. I have had a few long trips abroad during the years and all have held our places unpaid. I didnt ever ask for this - that was how the bill was presented however. One teaches in holidays if we want which I really appreciate. One puts in a lot of extra free time - in ensembles, arranging concerts etc but she considers that to be part of the Suzuki way and she is the senior Suzuki teacher in the state. You reap what you sow - we make every effort to fit round her, assiduously support and play in all her things and would rearrange our own commitments to suit her for big events for which we get loads of warning unlike school...... )

If I were an all standards sort of teacher I would probably put up with more irritation from a parent if the child was agreeable and outstanding. That child is an advertisement for my expertise and probably essential for my ensembles and concerts and community events. I do know that this has been one of our teacher's thoughts in the past regarding a challenging family with very dubious paying habits but a wonderful musician child who went on to a conservatory and escaped the family in the process. Teacher was very proud to have been a big part of that and he comes back and he does a star slot for her xmas extravaganza still. Cross between teaching and mentor/community service...

The one with the T+Cs was the most irritating as she didn't actually have a regular slot when we joined her. So she wanted to arrange a time week by week. Which we did but then I assumed this was not part of her normal T+Cs which she had never mentioned or given to me anyway but were on the net. Then she wanted to rearrange after making a time on two occasions and attempting to charge when we were unable to make any of her last minute suggestions. I sacked her pretty promptly. I knew we would never see eye to eye at that point. She was good but not good enough to be paid top whack for doing nothing on those terms and certainly not irreplaceable.