Fake Qualification, Bought ones too Options

[Scaramouche]

How can one be allowed to have letters after their name for a "qualification" that comprises of merely joining an organisation? Is that not a bit pointless?

But that isn't a qualification. It is a membership - just as one might be a MInstP in the science world.

Ok, it's a membership, but what is the point in having random letters after your name? What do you gain from it? More pupils, thinking that you're a good teacher because of these endless lists of letters, when infact as far as I am aware you just bought them?

[Robodoc]

It is a membership - just as one might be a MInstP in the science world.

David, can you enlighten us on the entry criteria for the organisations which form part of your Scrabble set of post-nominals? Is it just "pay us your membership and have these letters" or is it "you need to have cleared this academic hurdle before you can join"?

Husband has MA MIET on his business cards. The MA should speak for itself; the MIET is Member of the Institute of Engineering and Technology, who have strict entry criteria, usually a minimum of a first degree in engineering awarded by a recognised university.

I suppose I could add the letters MIAM (Member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists) for which I had to pass a fairly testing exam, but being a surgeon with something that could be misread as MAIM doesn't appeal.

Come to that, I could add MBADS (British Association of Day Surgery), MAES (Association of Endoscopic Surgeons), MASGBI (Association of Surgeons of Great Britain and Ireland), MBHS (British Hernia Society) etc, full membership of any of which requires qualification, but no-one ever does.

[Alicia Ocean]

Does India still have the B.A.Failed "qualifiaction" (which was almost as highly prized as a passed one)?

[Cyrilla]

I suppose I could add the letters MIAM (Member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists) for which I had to pass a fairly testing exam, but being a surgeon with something that could be misread as MAIM doesn't appeal.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Alicia Ocean]

Edit/ Also does anyone know of qualifications than one can simply buy?

This throw up the whole question of what gives an institution/body the right to allow someone to put letters after their name. Does anyone know if there are any laws about this? Rather than buy some (if they are worthless anyway in terms of their value) it would be simpler just to invent some.

Should I want to get a job on the basis of my qualifications then my would-be employer would understand what my qualifications are and whether they are relevant. (Thoug it's so long since I was at college the information is vastly out of date and all my certificates show is that at one time I was capable of learning stuff and taking an exam).

[BachPensioner]

But for those who don't know, what do the following mean
DipRSCM, DipMusComp(ICMA), CertGSMD(T), CertRSCM,CertHE(Wales), LNCM, AVCM(Hons), CertSocSci(Open), ANSCM, FIGOC, FASC, FFLM, LGMS, MNCMSoc,
I can work out Wales!
Thanks
Tricia

[Scaramouche]

Contrary to popular belief, they are not just paid for letters. The groups do have critetria for entry, and depending on the qualifications you demonstrate will determine at which level you are admitted to membership. For example, because I don't hold an undergraduate or postgraduate degree, I couldn't be admitted as a FGMS, only a LGMS.

So what entitled you to a LGMS then? Do you actually have to meet criteria that is not the norm? What I mean is, that a lot of people have undergraduate degrees, so could quite easily buy a FGMS. Is there any part of the entry criteria that wants you to stand out and actually deserve the letters? Depending on what else they ask for, if I graduate next year I could buy an FGMS - utterly ridiculous, because I haven't done anything differnet with my life to earn it.

[bevpiano]

I'm a member of the ISM & EPTA, for which you do have to prove you are suitably qualified & be elected to join. They are directly relevant to my work as a piano teacher, but they do not (quite rightly, in my opinion) entitle me to use any letters after my name. I could, however, advertise for pupils in one of their boxes in the yellow pages if I wished. In my professional capacity, I would only use qualifications which are relevant to my work.

[Alicia Ocean]

The ISM will take anyone recommended by two members. The requirement to prove your qualifications is to get on their register of teachers. You can still join without qualifications - you just need two people to back your applications, but you won't appear on the teacher's list, that's all. I know two qualified teachers who are ISM members but who are not on the register as they don't want any more pupils.

[ajm3212]

David - I think everyone here respects you as an experienced and gifted teacher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Getting back to the point I would add that in the end it is experience that counts. I am proud of my own qualifications and would certainly included the 3 in my signature on business cards or adverts if I ever return to instrumental teaching.

The idea of pretending to be a BA or MA or whatever is ridiculous. The only person you are deceiving is yourself and very few other people actually care. A post-nominal is confirmation to oneself of achievement and development.

Despite having LRSM after my name, a well played opening few bars of the Moonlight is usually sufficient to satisfy any potential pupil (or parent) as to your playing capacity (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Keeping a database of past pupils' exam successes is also a useful source of information to interested pupils.

[bevpiano]

The ISM will take anyone recommended by two members. The requirement to prove your qualifications is to get on their register of teachers. You can still join without qualifications - you just need two people to back your applications, but you won't appear on the teacher's list, that's all. I know two qualified teachers who are ISM members but who are not on the register as they don't want any more pupils.

I was required to send copies of my qualifications, although I was not applying to go on the register of teachers (I have more than enough work already, so don't need to.) They generally expect full members to be qualified musicians, although they can make exceptions in special cases - the fact that you are recommended by 2 people doesn't mean you're automatically elected.

[mrbouffant]

I'll dip my toe into these murky waters..

.. I think buying any set of letters with the aim of deception is wrong. Buying a PhD, MA, BSc or whatever "for a laugh" is one thing, but using that as a bona fide qualification without having put in the legwork is abhorrent.

As for societies which give letters for payment of membership fees without any rigorous application/qualification process, well that probably says more about them than it does about any members who have a genuine interest in the aims of that society.

As you know, I am a letters tart but I think it behoves the possessor of armfuls of postnominals to be careful the more trivial ones don't overshadow the ones that were achieved with hardwork and talent...

[YetAnotherPianist]

This throw up the whole question of what gives an institution/body the right to allow someone to put letters after their name. Does anyone know if there are any laws about this? Rather than buy some (if they are worthless anyway in terms of their value) it would be simpler just to invent some.

In the UK, things which look like degree postnominals are protected by law - so one cannot buy a BA/BSc/MA/MSc/PhD/DSc etc. etc. There's a loophole in the US, though, where an organisation can declare themselves to be a church of some faith, and award degrees - because church organisations can award qualifications in America. Most of the Internet sites from which one can buy degrees are US based, and in the small print one can see that 'Hardwood University' is associated with one of these 'churches'.

What is okay in the UK is for an organisation to give out memberships which entitle the holder to postnominals and academic dress. Membership levels look a lot like music diploma levels - one can be a Fellow of an organisation and put Fsomething after one's name. So, for instance, dcmbarton is a Fellow of the Academy of St Cecilia and puts FASC after his name accordingly - this means he pays a subscription fee to be a member of the organisation. It isn't a qualification - the membership criteria are quite broad, and at least would require one to be 'simply as an enthusiast' about Early Music'. So perhaps they could include a voucher in the complete Byrd Keyboard Works box set (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif).

So if you're curious about how to go about awarding membership postnominals, all you need to do is draft up a constitution and away you go. Some time ago I did one for the 'Bouffant College of Music', which can now technically award postnominals just as other societies can: FBCM, LBCM and ABCM. Feel free to edit it to suit, and start your own society to bolster your collection of postnominals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

The key to getting membership postnominals respected is to make them difficult to attain - FRS, for instance, is merely a membership, but carries much weight because one has to do a heck of a lot to get it. The first thing I do upon seeing postnominals I haven't heard of is to Google them - and have a chuckle if they're desperate enough to show off that they have tenner-a-year no-strings-attached memberships masquerading as qualifications (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif).

Bouffant College of Music

1. The name of this organisation shall be "The Bouffant College of Music", hereafter referred to as the BCM.

2. The BCM shall be an independent learned society composed of musicians and other persons interested in musical matters.

3. The aims of the BCM shall be:

• To encourage the telling of jokes in the 'Come In, Sit Down' thread in the Forums Cafe section of forums.abrsm.org
• To promote the highest standards in the performance of music, especially in Internet-arranged concerts

4. The BCM shall be governed by a Council of Management, the member of which shall be a supporter of Liverpool football club and a talented organist. The Council will consist of a chairman: the officership of chairman shall be granted initially to the person known as 'mrbouffant' on forums.abrsm.org; each chairman is responsible for appointing a successor should they see fit.

Council shall have executive power over all matters associated with the BCM, and is entitled to terminate the membership of any individual whose behaviour it feels to have brought the BCM into disrepute. Any such individual shall be deprived of all privileges of membership.

5. The membership of the BCM shall consist of

• Fellows: musicians, or those interested in musical matters, who have told a joke of notable humour, in the opinion of Council
• Licentiates: musicians, or those interested in musical matters, who have told a joke of reasonable humour, in the opinion of the Council
• Associates: musicians, or those interested in musical matters, who have told a joke containing some humerous element, in the opinion of Council

The minimum age for membership of the BCM, at any level, shall be 5 years, to allow joke-telling skills to develop.

Council may admit to fellowship honoris causa any musician, or person interested in musical matters, who has made a significant contribution to the work of the BCM.

Any person elected to Council who is not a Fellow at the time, shall be created a Fellow de jure.

6. Application for membership shall be made, normally, by telling a joke in the 'Come In, Sit Down' thread in the Forums Cafe section of forums.abrsm.org. The chairman may also grant membership to such person(s) as he or she shall deem worthy.

7. Fellows, Licentiates and Associates of the BCM shall be entitled to use the postnominal letters FBCM, LBCM and ABCM respectively.

8. Council of the BCM shall be at liberty to prescribe appropriate academic dress for members of the BCM, and for the council members.

[Alicia Ocean]

So if you're curious about how to go about awarding membership postnominals, all you need to do is draft up a constitution and away you go. Some time ago I did one for the 'Bouffant College of Music', which can now technically award postnominals just as other societies can: FBCM, LBCM and ABCM. Feel free to edit it to suit, and start your own society to bolster your collection of postnominals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

Thank you - that's useful. I might yet be tempted to create an online qualification in my field (not music) in a desperate bid to encourage collegues to learn some basic facts they ought to know by now.

[elidatrading]

I'll dip my toe into these murky waters..

.. I think buying any set of letters with the aim of deception is wrong. Buying a PhD, MA, BSc or whatever "for a laugh" is one thing, but using that as a bona fide qualification without having put in the legwork is abhorrent.

Alright, I'll confess.

I have an ATh and am an ordained minister. Can't remember who the ATh was from, it was a matter of printing off a piece of paper and cost nothing. The "Rev" is from what used to be Trinity Evangelical Ministries (now called something else) and if I moved to the US I could conduct weddings and so on. It's worth about the cost of the paper it's printed on. As it happens, I had a cat and a hamster ordained by an even more dodgy outfit called Universal Life Church. They too were permitted to do weddings, funerals and baptisms - but specifically not circumcisions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Liz

But for those who don't know, what do the following mean
DipRSCM, DipMusComp(ICMA), CertGSMD(T), CertRSCM,CertHE(Wales), LNCM, AVCM(Hons), CertSocSci(Open), ANSCM, FIGOC, FASC, FFLM, LGMS, MNCMSoc,
I can work out Wales!
Thanks
Tricia

I know most of these but not LGMS, MNCMSoc, ANSCM, FIGOC FFLM and FASC. Come on, the holder, enlighten us!

Liz