North West Adult Learners Concert Options

[mrbouffant]

I have a venue not far from Deborah we can use... Handy for the M25 etc. We are allowed to use the organ since I'm the organista emeritus LOL Reasonable grand piano and pubs very close by. Sounds an ideal venue to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[AnotherPianist]

The Stalybridge concert will be on Saturday 29th July 2006.

It is open to adult learners (age 21 or over) who have started or restarted learning their instrument after leaving full time education.
As one of the main ideas behind the Adult Learners concerts is to encourage and support those who are relatively inexperienced in performing beginners to intermediate players/singers are particularly welcome.
Diploma level players may apply for a reserve place but priority will be given to those below diploma level.
More information and application form can be found here.


Volunteer accompanists will be very welcome of course....

Looks like that's me and YAP out then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif). We're still in full time education, never mind starting learning when leaving it (I started age 19 whilst at university and am still there). I can assure you though that there is the same lack of performance opportunities for a grade 5 level pianist in a university as there is for any other adult learner in the country (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).

I hope the concert is a success (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). Sbhoa: if you want us to put the webpages on the official forum concert site (http://www.forumconcert.co.uk) just let us know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

Mr B: that certainly sounds like it could be a good listen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). London is, however, rather a long way away, we could offer to organise something similar further north but I doubt we'd find somewhere with an organ.

We've been thinking of something like a weekend event with two days but we've had a lack of anything to do on the other day: maybe a two-day concert split could work, one with longer slots for diploma level players one day and one with shorter slots in which anyone can play.

[katyjay]

AP, it's hard to pin down a clear definition of an "Adult Learner" that will focus the concert opportunity on the people who particularly need it.

If we just say "people who started or restarted their instruments as adults" we then get into the discussion of who is an adult (for example is an "A"-level student who is 18?) and also whether people who are at University preparing for a career in music who have changed instruments but still have those performance opportunities open to them from their degree should be counted. And a number of people on this forum who either teach or regularly hold their own recitals or play for money would argue that they are "Adult Learners" in that they are still learning their instrument.

My personal impression would be that you are an Adult Learner, in the sense of the people we want to make these concerts available to, but that YAP isn't. Similarly I was one, but am not any more. I'm not sure how to craft a definition that would work. Except possibly to qualify "full time education" to mean only up to the end of a first degree, and that only if it's a music degree.

I'd welcome anyone's views on this - I think it's an important issue.

Cheers

katyjay

[sbhoa]

Working on a definition that fits all variations is tricky.
AP, I would count you as an Adult Learner.

I feel that generally anyone over 21 and below dip. level who is NOT studying music on a full time course comes within the definition.
Anyone who is not sure whether they are eligible is welcome to ask.

[sarah-flute]

I feel that generally anyone over 21 and below dip. level who is NOT studying music on a full time course comes within the definition.
Anyone who is not sure whether they are eligible is welcome to ask.

In which case, I am ok for flute, I think?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[sbhoa]

I feel that generally anyone over 21 and below dip. level who is NOT studying music on a full time course comes within the definition.
Anyone who is not sure whether they are eligible is welcome to ask.

In which case, I am ok for flute, I think?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Sorry, forgot to reply to that when I saw it first time.... yes.

[purple viola]

Does diploma level include people who are working for diplomas but haven't yet actually passed one ( so aren't really diploma level) or does is actually mean people who have passed a diploma?

Mr B: a concert for diploma-level musicians sounds like a really good idea. Even if I don't yet qualify to play in it, I would love to listen to others of that standard playing.

[YetAnotherPianist]

Does diploma level include people who are working for diplomas but haven't yet actually passed one ( so aren't really diploma level) or does is actually mean people who have passed a diploma?

It's tricky to know where to draw the line. Shortly before I took my DipABRSM, for example, I was diploma level (I passed) but didn't have a diploma. Maybe it depends on what circumstance:

• If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
• If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

[StuMac]

Does diploma level include people who are working for diplomas but haven't yet actually passed one ( so aren't really diploma level) or does is actually mean people who have passed a diploma?

It's tricky to know where to draw the line. Shortly before I took my DipABRSM, for example, I was diploma level (I passed) but didn't have a diploma. Maybe it depends on what circumstance:

• If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
• If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

But then adults studying for diplomas *are* adult learners!

[nicki_flute]

Does diploma level include people who are working for diplomas but haven't yet actually passed one ( so aren't really diploma level) or does is actually mean people who have passed a diploma?

It's tricky to know where to draw the line. Shortly before I took my DipABRSM, for example, I was diploma level (I passed) but didn't have a diploma. Maybe it depends on what circumstance:

• If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
• If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

But then adults studying for diplomas *are* adult learners!

I thought that too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[sarah-flute]

I feel that generally anyone over 21 and below dip. level who is NOT studying music on a full time course comes within the definition.
Anyone who is not sure whether they are eligible is welcome to ask.

In which case, I am ok for flute, I think?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Sorry, forgot to reply to that when I saw it first time.... yes.

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mr B: a concert for diploma-level musicians sounds like a really good idea. Even if I don't yet qualify to play in it, I would love to listen to others of that standard playing.

So would I (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Does diploma level include people who are working for diplomas but haven't yet actually passed one ( so aren't really diploma level) or does is actually mean people who have passed a diploma?

It's tricky to know where to draw the line. Shortly before I took my DipABRSM, for example, I was diploma level (I passed) but didn't have a diploma. Maybe it depends on what circumstance:

• If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
• If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

But then adults studying for diplomas *are* adult learners!

I think katyjay's point is that anyone who can put together a diploma recital can sort themselves out a recital, and therefore aren't in need of a showcase for the talents.

[YetAnotherPianist]

I think katyjay's point is that anyone who can put together a diploma recital can sort themselves out a recital, and therefore aren't in need of a showcase for the talents.

Really? I live in a city with the RSAMD, a university full of music students, two orchestras, and concerts/recitals on pretty much a daily basis; and yet somehow I should be able to organise myself a recital? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Furthermore, as an amateur pianist, I can't join orchestras or choirs to get to perform or to make contacts....

[sarah-flute]

I think katyjay's point is that anyone who can put together a diploma recital can sort themselves out a recital, and therefore aren't in need of a showcase for the talents.

Really? I live in a city with the RSAMD, a university full of music students, two orchestras, and concerts/recitals on pretty much a daily basis; and yet somehow I should be able to organise myself a recital? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Well to be fair you're certainly in far better a position to arrange one than a 30 year old grade 5 violinist is in the same circumstances, for example... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Furthermore, as an amateur pianist, I can't join orchestras or choirs to get to perform or to make contacts....

You might be able to find an amateur orchestra willing to let you play a concerto with them.

[sbhoa]

I think katyjay's point is that anyone who can put together a diploma recital can sort themselves out a recital, and therefore aren't in need of a showcase for the talents.

And also that they are not lacking in confidence as performers and so not really in need of the support and encouragement that these events are trying to give.

I feel a bit like I'm sinking in a sea of rules and regulations here.
I really don't want to start having an endless list of rules, if for no other reason then because I'd just get drowned out by all these highly educated people... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I am not trying to alienate people or get into arguaments. (sp?)
What I'm trying to do as organiser is to provide a venue and do the organisation to allow people to get together to meet other adults who are learning and to perform and enjoy their playing in a 'safe' environment.
As I see it the Adult Learners Concert is for the support and encouragement of those adult learners who..

1) Don't get so many performance opportunities. (and might think more than twice before performing anyway).
2) (This one is pretty important) Are not confident about playing to an audience.
3) Would like to meet other adult learners and play to a small, non judgemental group of people.

It is also open to local adult learners who are not forum members.

I decided on 21 as the lower age lmit because this is the lower age limit to be eligible for the choice of performance assessment instead of exam (apart from special needs).
This is not even trying to be an exhaustive list.

Please can you also remember that this is only the second year for these concerts so it is not totally unexpected that adjustments will be made in the way they work as experience builds.

Sorry if this is a bit rambling I'm trying to get down a little of what is in my head and am not sure if it is coming out too clearly.

If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

Where in this do people like me fit? I passed grade 8 yet am about as far from Diploma level as grade1 is from grade 8 I think.


YAP.... you can go on the reserve list and if there is room on the programme you can play.

[sarah-flute]

If it's a concert where priority is given to non-diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who haven't yet passed grade 8;
If it's a concert where priority is given to diploma level people, the line could be that priority is given to those who have diplomas or have passed grade 8 and are performing works they intend to perform in a diploma examination.

Where in this do people like me fit? I passed grade 8 yet am about as far from Diploma level as grade1 is from grade 8 I think.

Yes, there's a big grey area - after all probably most of the people who take grade 8 never do a diploma...