bach partitas (piano)

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bach partitas (piano), should I run away?

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sam_1	May 4 2011, 03:21 PM Post #1
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 106 Joined: 22-February 05 Member No.: 3176	Hi (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif) I'm thinking of playing JS Bach's Partita no 5 for LTCL/LRSM (since I love Bach but refuse to play another prelude and fugue), anyone had experience learning or teaching a partita or similar baroque work? The music doesn't look as complex or tricky as a fugue, but it is looooong, and does require a lot of dexterity and 'good taste' in terms of dynamics etc... so, should I not dare venture into the world of longer baroque works, or, if I do, how should one approach it? I'm thinking of starting with some of the short, slower movements (which are of about a grade 7 or maybe 8 standard) and putting it all together slowly... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

fsharpminor	May 5 2011, 09:13 AM Post #2
Maestro Group: Members Posts: 12247 Joined: 7-June 06 From: Wirral (originally Keighley, Yorks) Member No.: 7089	I have dabbled with various Partita movements. Yes there are some technically less demanding ones, but each Partita also has one or two very technical movements (eg the Capriccio in No 2, set as gade 8 but far harder). Quite honestly I'd rather play a Prelude and Fugue ! My all time favourite the F# Minor (no 14) in Book 2, has a relatively straightforward Prelude, and only a few tricky bits in the fugue. Its on the LRSM syllabus. Its also about 8 mins long (the second longest of the 48), giving you a decent chunk of baroque in your programme. So dont dismiss the WTC wholeheartedly.

mel2	May 5 2011, 11:34 AM Post #3
Virtuoso Group: Members Posts: 2450 Joined: 15-May 06 Member No.: 6928	Beware things that don't look complex and tricky; almost certainly tucked away in the bowels of the thing will be an elephant trap in the form of some abstruse trill formation that JSBach dreamed up to inflict on some annoying pupil and was only ever used once. This will entail serious study of ornamentation in the correct style, and I was just not in the mood when I picked out my piece of Bach; one day I will be but at the moment, life is too short.

lilly763	May 5 2011, 12:50 PM Post #4
Unregistered	QUOTE(fsharpminor @ May 5 2011, 05:13 AM) I have dabbled with various Partita movements. Yes there are some technically less demanding ones, but each Partita also has one or two very technical movements (eg the Capriccio in No 2, set as gade 8 but far harder). Quite honestly I'd rather play a Prelude and Fugue ! My all time favourite the F# Minor (no 14) in Book 2, has a relatively straightforward Prelude, and only a few tricky bits in the fugue. Its on the LRSM syllabus. Its also about 8 mins long (the second longest of the 48), giving you a decent chunk of baroque in your programme. So dont dismiss the WTC wholeheartedly. Oh dear... is the capriccio that bad? I read through it and it didn't seem terrible, but now my teacher has given me six weeks to bring it to performance standard... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) At any rate, as fsharpminor points out, there are some incredible preludes and fugues which you shouldn't dismiss - I also love the F# minor one from book II, and agree that it isn't too bad. Some of my other favorites on the LRSM list include the D# minor from book I and the G minor from book II. But I have decided to work on a partita (the second (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)) with LRSM in mind, so I certainly see where you are coming from! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) In general, I feel that the individual movements don't go far beyond grade 8 in standard (the gigue from #5 looks crazy though!) - the difficulty is more in the stamina required to put them all together and giving each dance its own character while making a coherent whole. If I were you, and actually this IS what I'm doing for the partita I am working on, is to focus on the harder movements first, so they have time to settle into the mind and fingers.

sam_1	May 5 2011, 06:07 PM Post #5
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 106 Joined: 22-February 05 Member No.: 3176	well, listen to Martha Argerich play the capriccio - to play it like that would be incredibly difficult! Oh, as an aside, is it possible to submit alternative diploma pieces for ABRSM like it is for Trinity? The syllabus doesn't seem to suggest that..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

lilly763	May 5 2011, 06:45 PM Post #6
Unregistered	QUOTE(sam_1 @ May 5 2011, 02:07 PM) well, listen to Martha Argerich play the capriccio - to play it like that would be incredibly difficult! Oh, as an aside, is it possible to submit alternative diploma pieces for ABRSM like it is for Trinity? The syllabus doesn't seem to suggest that..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Well, to play ANYTHING like Argerich would be incredibly difficult... I'm not aiming that high! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) For ABRSM, you can play up to 7 minutes of music of your choice not on the syllabus for DipABRSM, and up to 1/3 of your programme time for LRSM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You don't have to get it approved by the board beforehand either.

sam_1	May 5 2011, 07:03 PM Post #7
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 106 Joined: 22-February 05 Member No.: 3176	QUOTE(lilly763 @ May 5 2011, 06:45 PM) QUOTE(sam_1 @ May 5 2011, 02:07 PM) well, listen to Martha Argerich play the capriccio - to play it like that would be incredibly difficult! Oh, as an aside, is it possible to submit alternative diploma pieces for ABRSM like it is for Trinity? The syllabus doesn't seem to suggest that..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Well, to play ANYTHING like Argerich would be incredibly difficult... I'm not aiming that high! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) For ABRSM, you can play up to 7 minutes of music of your choice not on the syllabus for DipABRSM, and up to 1/3 of your programme time for LRSM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You don't have to get it approved by the board beforehand either. haha, of course! But I more meant the speed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) thanks for the alternative pieces info - where in the regulations does it say, I've been looking for a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) QUOTE(sam_1 @ May 5 2011, 07:00 PM) QUOTE(lilly763 @ May 5 2011, 06:45 PM) QUOTE(sam_1 @ May 5 2011, 02:07 PM) well, listen to Martha Argerich play the capriccio - to play it like that would be incredibly difficult! Oh, as an aside, is it possible to submit alternative diploma pieces for ABRSM like it is for Trinity? The syllabus doesn't seem to suggest that..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Well, to play ANYTHING like Argerich would be incredibly difficult... I'm not aiming that high! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) For ABRSM, you can play up to 7 minutes of music of your choice not on the syllabus for DipABRSM, and up to 1/3 of your programme time for LRSM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You don't have to get it approved by the board beforehand either. haha, of course! But I more meant the speed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) thanks for the alternative pieces info - where in the regulations does it say, I've been looking for a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) oops... just found it:-) I wonder if they would be fine with doing a piece from the LRSM list for dipABRSM?? Seems weird, but I really like the F sharp Bach Prelude and Fugue and it doesn't seem toooooo difficult....

lilly763	May 5 2011, 07:13 PM Post #8
Unregistered	QUOTE(sam_1 @ May 5 2011, 03:03 PM) oops... just found it:-) I wonder if they would be fine with doing a piece from the LRSM list for dipABRSM?? Seems weird, but I really like the F sharp Bach Prelude and Fugue and it doesn't seem toooooo difficult.... I'm sure they would be fine with it, as long as it's within the time limit allotted to own-choice pieces. Actually, one of my teacher's students even went over the time limit, playing Chopin's 4th ballade for DipABRSM ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif))... she passed, so I'd imagine it wasn't a problem.

jod	May 7 2011, 12:09 PM Post #9
Maestro Group: Banned Posts: 9899 Joined: 14-January 05 From: Burwell, Cambridgeshire Member No.: 2939	I feel comforted about f# minor's account of the capriccio from the c minor Partita that I am playing for my grade 8. There is no way I'm not playing it as I love it so much, but to hear that this is possibly a hard choice for the exam brings me some comfort whilst I get the attack and voicing correct. Yes I have heard Argerich play it, and peculiarly don't like it, this is too fast. I've heard it played on the harpsichord several times and prefer the tempi set by these players and also feel that the there is something fresh that the technical contraints placed on the harpsichord can say to a pianist when transferring this music to the piano.

fsharpminor	May 7 2011, 03:07 PM Post #10
Maestro Group: Members Posts: 12247 Joined: 7-June 06 From: Wirral (originally Keighley, Yorks) Member No.: 7089	QUOTE(jod @ May 7 2011, 01:09 PM) I feel comforted about f# minor's account of the capriccio from the c minor Partita that I am playing for my grade 8. There is no way I'm not playing it as I love it so much, but to hear that this is possibly a hard choice for the exam brings me some comfort whilst I get the attack and voicing correct. Yes I have heard Argerich play it, and peculiarly don't like it, this is too fast. I've heard it played on the harpsichord several times and prefer the tempi set by these players and also feel that the there is something fresh that the technical contraints placed on the harpsichord can say to a pianist when transferring this music to the piano. The main problem is maintain the accuracy of the leaps of a 10th ! Then you get some that aren't 10ths ! (Off thread, but in Group A Grade 8 I really like the Trygve Madsen, easy gorgoeus prelude, but the fugue is tricky in places!). No Sam I still think a P & F is a better option than trying a whole Partita, which in any case would take up a good bit of the programme.

jod	May 7 2011, 03:40 PM Post #11
Maestro Group: Banned Posts: 9899 Joined: 14-January 05 From: Burwell, Cambridgeshire Member No.: 2939	QUOTE(fsharpminor @ May 7 2011, 04:07 PM) QUOTE(jod @ May 7 2011, 01:09 PM) I feel comforted about f# minor's account of the capriccio from the c minor Partita that I am playing for my grade 8. There is no way I'm not playing it as I love it so much, but to hear that this is possibly a hard choice for the exam brings me some comfort whilst I get the attack and voicing correct. Yes I have heard Argerich play it, and peculiarly don't like it, this is too fast. I've heard it played on the harpsichord several times and prefer the tempi set by these players and also feel that the there is something fresh that the technical contraints placed on the harpsichord can say to a pianist when transferring this music to the piano. The main problem is maintain the accuracy of the leaps of a 10th ! Then you get some that aren't 10ths ! (Off thread, but in Group A Grade 8 I really like the Trygve Madsen, easy gorgoeus prelude, but the fugue is tricky in places!). No Sam I still think a P & F is a better option than trying a whole Partita, which in any case would take up a good bit of the programme. Actually the leaps are the easy bit, it is passing the third voice through that is tricky. With the LH leaps float the arm, keep the elbow heavy and motor-memorise all the leaps.

Robodoc	May 8 2011, 08:56 PM Post #12
Virtuoso Group: Members Posts: 2720 Joined: 30-March 07 From: Chorley, Lancs Member No.: 10431	Whatever you choose to play you will be with it for quite a while so it makes sense to choose something you really like. If you like the Bach Partitas then go for it. If you're not sure, why not learn a movement or two as samplers and then make your mind up. In the development from a Dip standard pianist to an LRSM pianist I would imagine you are going to be learning quite a bit besides whatever you finally pick as your exam recital pieces.

jovy	May 20 2011, 01:02 PM Post #13
Newbie Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 28-October 06 Member No.: 8094	Hi! I share the same sentiments regarding the WTC. Somehow, although how hard I practice the preludes and fugues, I seem to falter in the fugues during the exams. That's why, like you, I decided to do a partita (however, partita 2, not partita 5). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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