I know these are probably daft questions but...... Options

[clarem45]

I wonder if anyone could take the time to help me? I have just started looking at music theory and have ordered past paper and "Theory is fun"!!!!! books. I am currently working on them at home and now have a set of basic questions

Time signatures - how do you work out what the bottom number should be?
How do you write a "good" four bar rhythm?


Do I need to be able to spell all of the musical terms or just recognise them and put the english equivalent?


How do I work out the key when presented with tonic triads. I know that the notes are the first, third and fifth note of the scale but my first question shows an Fsharp in the key signature and then the first note is an e followed by a g and then a b?

I know these are basic questions, and I feel a bit daft asking them! But help!

Thank you

Clare

[jm-hamilton]

How do I work out the key when presented with tonic triads. I know that the notes are the first, third and fifth note of the scale but my first question shows an Fsharp in the key signature and then the first note is an e followed by a g and then a b?

I know these are basic questions, and I feel a bit daft asking them! But help!

Thank you

Clare

Remember that for each keysignature there are 2 keys - your key signature of Fsharp means the key is either G major, or E minor. As a tonic triad consists of the 1st, 3rd and 5th of the scale and the notes are E, G and B then the key is E minor.

Your questions are not daft at all - everyone has questions when they first start.

Do I need to be able to spell all of the musical terms or just recognise them and put the english equivalent?

Clare

I would say you don't NEED to be able to spell them all correctly - some of them are difficult to remember how to spell, but it would be a good idea to at least try to get them right.

[sbhoa]

Time signatures - how do you work out what the bottom number should be?
How do you write a "good" four bar rhythm?

I find that knowing the american time names can help to understand the bottom number.
A crotchet is known as a quarter note so a 4 indicates a crotchet beat.

One way to see if your 4 bar rhythm works is to tap or clap it. Does it sound right?
Being able to tell if this is so may depend on your practical experience. It's an area I prefer to approach from a practical angle first.

It sounds as though you might benefit from taking a step back and starting your theory study at an earlier point.
Sometimes it help to have a teacher explain the things you aren't clear on.

[stetenorve]

Clare,

please don't stop asking questions! The beauty of this forum is that lots of people will indeed have "the answer" but there are many ways of expressing what the answer is, and we all benefit from others' explanations.

As regards the 4 bar rhythm, in the lower grades of theory I would advise thinking of it as a 2 bar rhythm with a slightly different 2 bar answer - this approach always feels less daunting.

Steve

[maggiemay]

With my grade one students, writing a rhythm, I find most can't initially hear it in their heads, though of course if they can, it helps.

We start at a very simple level - repeat bar 1 in bar 3 and write a note to last the whole of the bar for bar 4.
Gradually as they get a bit more confident we can introduce some variety into bar 3 (but still base it on bar 1, which echoes what Stetenorve said), which keeps some degree of coherence (or do I mean cohesion?) in the whole.

I encourage them to tap it out, and build up this skill, so they gradually come up with ideas of their own - eg 'I'll use the rhythm from bar 1 but turn it round the other way' . In other words, keep it simple to start with, and don't try to jump in at grade 3 or 4 level.

Most of the questions involving Italian terms need you to recognise and / or copy the word, at least at the lower grades.

[jm-hamilton]

Clare, do you have any of the AB workbooks? I know a lot of people find them rather formal and stuffy but if you are intending eventually to do a theory exam with AB, then everything you need for each grade is in these books.

Also as sbhoa said, have you thought about a teacher? Maybe you won't need to have regular lessons but there's no substitute for having someone explain things to you that you don't understand.

[jod]

One exercise for writing a four bar rhythm that is worth trying is to equate rhythm as in one you write to rhythm as in one you hear.

Look at the starter rhythms in your work book and clap them. Clap the reply to the rhythm. Your instinctive Q & A rhythm is almost certainly a good rhythm. Now write it down. If necessary tap the beat in one hand and the rhythm in the other.

This way you will soon be hearing rhythms written on paper in the same way that you hear words.

This method is called building a aural feed-back loop. We use it to teach children to read all the time. We do not use it to teach an integrated approach to practical and theoretical music. We then wonder why it is so many people struggle when they get to Grade 5 Theory.

[dolcebaby]

One exercise for writing a four bar rhythm that is worth trying is to equate rhythm as in one you write to rhythm as in one you hear.

Look at the starter rhythms in your work book and clap them. Clap the reply to the rhythm. Your instinctive Q & A rhythm is almost certainly a good rhythm. Now write it down. If necessary tap the beat in one hand and the rhythm in the other.

This way you will soon be hearing rhythms written on paper in the same way that you hear words.

This method is called building a aural feed-back loop. We use it to teach children to read all the time. We do not use it to teach an integrated approach to practical and theoretical music. We then wonder why it is so many people struggle when they get to Grade 5 Theory.

Yes, I agree this is very important - I call it the 'do what you hear and hear what you do' approach. My students don't ever get the chance to think of 'theory' as a separate discipline, it's just part of lessons for them and as far as they know it's one of the things you do in order to learn to play the piano.

[sbhoa]

One exercise for writing a four bar rhythm that is worth trying is to equate rhythm as in one you write to rhythm as in one you hear.

Look at the starter rhythms in your work book and clap them. Clap the reply to the rhythm. Your instinctive Q & A rhythm is almost certainly a good rhythm. Now write it down. If necessary tap the beat in one hand and the rhythm in the other.

This way you will soon be hearing rhythms written on paper in the same way that you hear words.

This method is called building a aural feed-back loop. We use it to teach children to read all the time. We do not use it to teach an integrated approach to practical and theoretical music. We then wonder why it is so many people struggle when they get to Grade 5 Theory.

Yes, I agree this is very important - I call it the 'do what you hear and hear what you do' approach. My students don't ever get the chance to think of 'theory' as a separate discipline, it's just part of lessons for them and as far as they know it's one of the things you do in order to learn to play the piano.

I agree too but it may need some preparation work in able for someone to be able to do this reliably.
The OP may be ok with this though the way the question is asked makes me a little unsure as to whether this is the case.

[clarem45]

One exercise for writing a four bar rhythm that is worth trying is to equate rhythm as in one you write to rhythm as in one you hear.

Look at the starter rhythms in your work book and clap them. Clap the reply to the rhythm. Your instinctive Q & A rhythm is almost certainly a good rhythm. Now write it down. If necessary tap the beat in one hand and the rhythm in the other.

This way you will soon be hearing rhythms written on paper in the same way that you hear words.

This method is called building a aural feed-back loop. We use it to teach children to read all the time. We do not use it to teach an integrated approach to practical and theoretical music. We then wonder why it is so many people struggle when they get to Grade 5 Theory.

Yes, I agree this is very important - I call it the 'do what you hear and hear what you do' approach. My students don't ever get the chance to think of 'theory' as a separate discipline, it's just part of lessons for them and as far as they know it's one of the things you do in order to learn to play the piano.

I agree too but it may need some preparation work in able for someone to be able to do this reliably.
The OP may be ok with this though the way the question is asked makes me a little unsure as to whether this is the case.

Many thanks for your help!! I do have a music lesson but my teacher can only fit me in for half an hour and I have to say that I base this lesson on practical playing rather than theory at the moment.

All of your answers make sense - thank you - I think the four bar rhythm will get better when I have done more attempts and I want to show my teacher my goes and see what he thinks!

One last question - the bottom number in the time signature - I understand what it means when it is written in for example I know that the number 4 means four crotchet beats in the bar. But how do you work it out when looking at a piece of music? for example one of the questions had four bars -these bars comprise of crotchets, quavers and minims, by adding them up in my head I know the top number is 4 but how do I work out the bottom number??

Again thanks for your help.

Clare

[jod]

Clare the top number tels you how many beats. The bottom number tells you what sort. Eg 1/4 notes are crotchets 4/4 four crotchets a bar 2/4 two crotchets a bar. 3/4 three crotchets a bar.

If you use the american terms to refer to the note names crotchets = quarter notes minims = half notes quavers = eight notes semibreves = whole notes make sure the sums are the same on both sides.

[clarem45]

sorry meant to say bottom

[icklechick]

One last question - the bottom number in the time signature - I understand what it means when it is written in for example I know that the number 4 means four crotchet beats in the bar. But how do you work it out when looking at a piece of music? for example one of the questions had four bars -these bars comprise of crotchets, quavers and minims, by adding them up in my head I know the top number is 4 but how do I work out the bottom number??

Again thanks for your help.

Clare

Hi Clare (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You worked out the top number was 4 - so you counted 4 beats in the bar? What were those beats? It's a bit like a mathematical equation. There'll either be 4 crotchet beats, 4 quaver beats, or 4 minim beats in the bar *that doesn't mean each bar wil ONLY contain crotchets, quavers or minims though*

Only one will "fit" at the early grades. Ignore the fact that the bars have different note values in...if a bar as 1 crotchet, 1 minim and 2 quavers, then you still count 4 beats and it's likely to be 4/4. It could also be 2/2 (two minim beats to a bar) because that "adds" up the same...in the early grades you're more likely to encounter 4/4 than 2/2 so use that as a starter.

[clarem45]

One last question - the bottom number in the time signature - I understand what it means when it is written in for example I know that the number 4 means four crotchet beats in the bar. But how do you work it out when looking at a piece of music? for example one of the questions had four bars -these bars comprise of crotchets, quavers and minims, by adding them up in my head I know the top number is 4 but how do I work out the bottom number??

Again thanks for your help.

Clare

Hi Clare (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You worked out the top number was 4 - so you counted 4 beats in the bar? What were those beats? It's a bit like a mathematical equation. There'll either be 4 crotchet beats, 4 quaver beats, or 4 minim beats in the bar *that doesn't mean each bar wil ONLY contain crotchets, quavers or minims though*

Only one will "fit" at the early grades. Ignore the fact that the bars have different note values in...if a bar as 1 crotchet, 1 minim and 2 quavers, then you still count 4 beats and it's likely to be 4/4. It could also be 2/2 (two minim beats to a bar) because that "adds" up the same...in the early grades you're more likely to encounter 4/4 than 2/2 so use that as a starter.

Thank you again - you know as soon as you explain it - it seems so ###### obvious, but when I am looking at the question it is not obvious to me at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) Think I am ok with the theory at the moment - just need to get my read round writing a rhythm and maybe I will have to have some theory lessons rather then playing lessons. Thanks you again

Clare

[jod]

Clare there are no stupid questions here. If the top number is only divisible by 2 then the time is simple and the beat/ pulse is the same as the bottom number name in american notation eg 4/4 four quarter notes eg crotchets 2/2 two half notes eg minims 4/8 four eighth notes eg quavers.

Unless the top number is three any top number that is divisible by three indicates compound time. Divide the top number by 3 to get the number of beats. You know each beat is made up of three of the bottom number so 3x the bottom number will give you the beat type.

eg 6/8 is compound 2 time with a dotted crotched beat 6/3 =2 and 3 eighth notes is a dotted quarter note. ie a dotted crotchet.