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> What Grade Is This Piece?, Mozart Piano Concerto, No. 21 (467)
tiger_vio
post Nov 27 2005, 05:52 PM
Post #1


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Does anyone know what grade 'Mozart Piano Concerto, No. 21 (467)' is? I did it a while ago and thinking of digging it back up for a performing exam, but I want it to be a decent grade. Thanks =D
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hannah
post Nov 27 2005, 07:38 PM
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I have played this piece and would say that it is well above grade 8 in terms of the technical standard and stamina required. It took me many months to build up the stamina just to get through the development section of the first movement, which has lots of octaves and rapid arpeggios.

Unless of course you're just talking about the famous slow movement - in which case I would say it is technically grade 5 or below, but musically very difficult to pull off and not sound boring. You would need to be post-grade 8 to perform this well. It's probably better not to play something very famous for an exam unless you're sure you can make a convincing job of it.

To perform this for an exam you would need a room with 2 pianos, the second piano performing an orchestral reduction as the piece is scored for piano and orchestra. You would also have to think about including cadenzas, which are often more difficult than the piece itself.
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 27 2005, 08:15 PM
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Without a doubt at the LEAST!!! DipABRSM

IrisH - LoonY
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crazy_purple_piano_freak
post Nov 27 2005, 08:17 PM
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No idea as i havent seen the score but I'm guessing well above Grade 8/Dip standard...I love this piece though!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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sl123451
post Nov 27 2005, 08:17 PM
Post #5


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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 08:15 PM) *

Without a doubt at the LEAST!!! DipABRSM

IrisH - LoonY


i suppose you would know with your extensive professional repertoire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) sarcastic laugh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 27 2005, 09:46 PM
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It is impossible to 'grade' this piece realistically.

A concerto is a virtuoso showpiece for a brilliant player. A Performers' Dipoloma holder has a realistic chance of making something of it. Anybody with less ability would merely be making a noise.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 27 2005, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 09:46 PM) *

It is impossible to 'grade' this piece realistically.

But it is quite bizarre how piano is the ONLY instrument I've seen that DOESN'T have a concerto at ANY level on ANY syllabus.

Even Harpsichord has a concerto by Handel on it (From Aylesford pieces) and I think I've seen Organ ones also.

Lowest Grade I've ever seen a concerto is Grade 4 Cello with a Vivaldi C major Concerto...

IrisH - LoonY
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tiger_vio
post Nov 27 2005, 10:52 PM
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Thanks guys! I know its hard to 'grade' a piece, but just wanted a rough idea, so thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Although I think mine is a slightly simplified version (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 27 2005, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 10:22 PM) *

QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 09:46 PM) *

It is impossible to 'grade' this piece realistically.

But it is quite bizarre how piano is the ONLY instrument I've seen that DOESN'T have a concerto at ANY level on ANY syllabus.

IrisH - LoonY

That is because all other non-keyboard instrument concertos are are accompanied by a pianist playing an orchestral reduction. In fact, any pianist with any sense will reduce it further (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Recently, the AB set the last movement of Bach's Italian Concerto for grade 8. This was a little misleading, as the Italian was actually composed for unaccompanied harpsichord and was originally 'a concerto in the Italian style' rather than a concerto as we now recognise it.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 27 2005, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 10:58 PM) *

QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 10:22 PM) *

QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 09:46 PM) *

It is impossible to 'grade' this piece realistically.

But it is quite bizarre how piano is the ONLY instrument I've seen that DOESN'T have a concerto at ANY level on ANY syllabus.

IrisH - LoonY

That is because all other non-keyboard instrument concertos are are accompanied by a pianist playing an orchestral reduction. In fact, any pianist with any sense will reduce it further (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Recently, the AB set the last movement of Bach's Italian Concerto for grade 8. This was a little misleading, as the Italian was actually composed for unaccompanied harpsichord and was originally 'a concerto in the Italian style' rather than a concerto as we now recognise it.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Well yeah, I would have thought that doing it as a solo with orchestral interludes between the solo would be acceptable enough!

I've got copies of the Chopin Concertos 1 and 2 and Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brilliante in E flat for Piano solo, and 2 piano scores of all 5 Beethoven Concertos, Rachmaninov 2, Grieg, Mozart 21, Liszt 1 + 2 and Schumann.

Why wouldn't that be acceptable?!

IrisH - LoonY
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 27 2005, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 11:29 PM) *

Well yeah, I would have thought that doing it as a solo with orchestral interludes between the solo would be acceptable enough!

I am not sure what you mean here. The Bach Italian was not written for an orchestrally accompanied harpsichord. If you mean true piano concertos, then it is not necessary. There are umpteen piano sonatas to set instead.

QUOTE
I've got copies of the Chopin Concertos 1 and 2 and Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brilliante in E flat for Piano solo, and 2 piano scores of all 5 Beethoven Concertos, Rachmaninov 2, Grieg, Mozart 21, Liszt 1 + 2 and Schumann.

Why wouldn't that be acceptable?!

IrisH - LoonY

Because they are all far too difficult for grade 8 pianists. Non-piano concertos selected by exam boards are at least playable by the intrumentalists concerned. Grade 8 pianists would not even begin to polish the list you cite. Most of them would sound nonsensical without an accompaniment.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 27 2005, 11:43 PM
Post #12


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QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 11:38 PM) *

QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 11:29 PM) *

Well yeah, I would have thought that doing it as a solo with orchestral interludes between the solo would be acceptable enough!

I am not sure what you mean here. The Bach Italian was not written for an orchestrally accompanied harpsichord. If you mean true piano concertos, then it is not necessary. There are umpteen piano sonatas to set instead.

QUOTE
I've got copies of the Chopin Concertos 1 and 2 and Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brilliante in E flat for Piano solo, and 2 piano scores of all 5 Beethoven Concertos, Rachmaninov 2, Grieg, Mozart 21, Liszt 1 + 2 and Schumann.

Why wouldn't that be acceptable?!

IrisH - LoonY

Because they are all far too difficult for grade 8 pianists. Non-piano concertos selected by exam boards are at least playable by the intrumentalists concerned. Grade 8 pianists would not even begin to polish the list you cite. Most of them would sound nonsensical without an accompaniment.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Set the Rach 2 as a DipABRSM piece? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No I don't mean that.

What I mean is, arranging the sections where the piano solo is silent of the orchestra playing onto the soloist, e.g. the 2 page intro to the Chopin 1 played by the soloist leading onto the solo part.

IrisH - LoonY
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 27 2005, 11:46 PM
Post #13


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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 11:43 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Set the Rach 2 as a DipABRSM piece? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No I don't mean that.

What I mean is, arranging the sections where the piano solo is silent of the orchestra playing onto the soloist, e.g. the 2 page intro to the Chopin 1 played by the soloist leading onto the solo part.

IrisH - LoonY

Pardon? Can you express yourself a little more clearly, please?
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saxlover
post Nov 27 2005, 11:47 PM
Post #14


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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 27 2005, 11:56 PM
Post #15


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QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 27 2005, 11:46 PM) *

QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 27 2005, 11:43 PM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Set the Rach 2 as a DipABRSM piece? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No I don't mean that.

What I mean is, arranging the sections where the piano solo is silent of the orchestra playing onto the soloist, e.g. the 2 page intro to the Chopin 1 played by the soloist leading onto the solo part.

IrisH - LoonY

Pardon? Can you express yourself a little more clearly, please?


Here's a public domain version of the 1st movement of the Schumann Concerto in A minor

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/amincon1.pdf

If you can see it, you'll see cue notes which signify the orchestral parts to be played by the soloist, with the italian instrument names like "Clar" and "Fag" in the first line on the first page...

This is what I'm talking about which should be suitable for exams (Obviously not this concerto, but something!)

IrisH - LoonY
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