Should There Be A Grade 9?, (and maybe 10 too?) Options

[musicbox]

I think it'd be cool to have agrade 9.

[mwl1]

I once told some guy that I had grade 9 piano and he believed me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dulciana]

I can see the logic in the idea, but I still can't help feeling that there IS and SHOULD be a gap between the standard required for grade exams and that required for a diploma. Otherwise, would a diploma be quite such an achievement? I really only felt that I "learnt to play" betwen grade 8 and diploma, but had there been interim options, I might just have strived to pass the exams rather than really learn to play, as I see it, in a manner that could be perceived as professionally.

[Rosemary7391]

The saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' comes to mind. The system seems to work well right now, so why change? If there wasn't a gap, then people could feasibly just keep going forever... The gap makes anyone who rushed through grades stop and think about it, and forces real learning. Although this should be happening in between exams, it doesn't always, so diploma breaks the cycle by having such a gap.

[Manek]

Maybe - once people have reached a Grade 8 standard, they're good enough to be gigging rather than doing exams...?

[elidatrading]

Yes - but not called grade 9. The Trinity Performers Certificate was a great idea and I lament its passing (well. reduction to three subjects) but I guess they would not have removed it if it was popular so presumably it wasn't. Guildhall had an exam that was supposed to indicate that someone who passed it was at a standard where they could expect to get into Music College regardless of the competition, and before that they had the Junior Recital Certificate which, according to a letter I got from their chief examiner or whoever it was, was supposed to indicate a playing standard sufficient to pass the playing section in the LSGM teachers diploma. Something similar would be welcome - just because an exam is there doesn't mean you have to do it after all!

Liz

[La_Chopiniste_]

I think that the normal situation, is the existance of a gap between diploma and graded exams . That is what makes differance afterall.

[earplugs]

A little off topic, but do people think that the gap is in some ways widening (for some candidates at least) between grade 8 and diploma? Not because the standards are changing but because more children are being taken more quickly through the exam treadmill and completing grade 8 younger. Somebody who passes grade 8 with distinction at 14 may be a lot further from diploma than an 18 year old who, from a grade prespective, has no better technical ability but more maturity and musical experience.

If this is the reason that there is perceived to be a big gap then we don't need something like a grade exam only harder, but something which helps students develop musical maturity.

Why not a continuous assessment course. Provide a big repertoire list with plenty of choice, but perhaps in lists to make sure different styles must be covered. The candidate has to show up a number of times and play two more pieces to a good performance standard and hold an intelligent conversation with the assessor about the composer/style/period of the piece. Each test could be low key and not a high pressure pass/fail situation but earn the student some credits. A certain number of credits would gain the certificate but it could take longer for some to complete than others. The standard could be such that, at the end of it, if the repertoire had been well chosen the student could polish it up a little more and it would form the basis for the recital aspect of a diploma.

[mattrattley]

...I still can't help feeling that there IS and SHOULD be a gap... I might just have strived to pass the exams rather than really learn to play, as I see it, in a manner that could be perceived as professionally.

lots of interesting posts but I picked this one out as it's basically what i'm about to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

broadly speaking, grades are for 'amateur' musicians, diplomas are for 'professionals'. There really has to be a gap between them. something my chemistry teacher says quite alot when he's teaching us is:

"everything's shades of grey. the world isn't black and white - you've always got to think, shades of grey"

some students (myself included until fairly recently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) think that there is a magic line whereby you turn from amateur to professional, and they want to rationalise it by making an 'exam' of some sort - it's measurable, and there's no denying that once you've passed, you're a pro. even i know, that line doesn't exist. There is no halfway line, it's shades of grey. sure, a grade 9 would show you're better than someone at grade 8 - but you'd still be no closer to professionalism, that is gained whilst working on repertoire and performance skills, which may well culminate in a diploma of some kind.

this is a really good topic btw (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) hopefully the big AB cheeses are reading it

[AmandaL]

The Trinity Performers Certificate was a great idea and I lament its passing (well. reduction to three subjects) but I guess they would not have removed it if it was popular so presumably it wasn't. Guildhall had an exam that was supposed to indicate that someone who passed it was at a standard where they could expect to get into Music College regardless of the competition, and before that they had the Junior Recital Certificate which, according to a letter I got from their chief examiner or whoever it was, was supposed to indicate a playing standard sufficient to pass the playing section in the LSGM teachers diploma. Something similar would be welcome - just because an exam is there doesn't mean you have to do it after all!

According to the TG website, which I was reading only earlier this week, the Performers Certificate is going to be re-introduced in all instruments some time later in 2007. It was only temporarily removed while the examinations were being re-vamped.

[clair de]

I think the system is fine.

Up to Grade 8 seems to cover most of the basics as well as beginning to understand how to interprete pieces according to composers e.t.c. It seems to be the ' A level' of a musical instrument, like a stepping stone on to a degree.

When you move to a diploma, you have to use all that was taught up to Grade 8 and use those as tools for moving on.
The step from A level to degree is huge, but then you have 3 or 4 years building on it.

Likewise I think the step from Grade 8 to diploma is also big, and the time it takes to complete the diploma is relevant to the standard reached.

That's my opinion anyway. It's all cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Manek]

broadly speaking, grades are for 'amateur' musicians, diplomas are for 'professionals'. There really has to be a gap between them. something my chemistry teacher says quite alot when he's teaching us is:

Exams are for amateurs...? But surely making money from music is for professionals...?

I would class somebody who gigs almost nightly and has been on several tours as a professional, even if they hadn't done any diplomae - even if they hadn't done any exams at all, in fact!

However, I would class somebody who has done Grades 1-8 and the Diplomae, yet only really plays at home for personal enjoyment (bar the odd occassional performance at a charity music festival or local school event) as an amateur...

[fsharpminor]

broadly speaking, grades are for 'amateur' musicians, diplomas are for 'professionals'. There really has to be a gap between them. something my chemistry teacher says quite alot when he's teaching us is:

Exams are for amateurs...? But surely making money from music is for professionals...?

I would class somebody who gigs almost nightly and has been on several tours as a professional, even if they hadn't done any diplomae - even if they hadn't done any exams at all, in fact!

However, I would class somebody who has done Grades 1-8 and the Diplomae, yet only really plays at home for personal enjoyment (bar the odd occassional performance at a charity music festival or local school event) as an amateur...

Like me, an enthusiastic amateur! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sbhoa]

Exams are for amateurs...? But surely making money from music is for professionals...?

I would class somebody who gigs almost nightly and has been on several tours as a professional, even if they hadn't done any diplomae - even if they hadn't done any exams at all, in fact!

However, I would class somebody who has done Grades 1-8 and the Diplomae, yet only really plays at home for personal enjoyment (bar the odd occassional performance at a charity music festival or local school event) as an amateur...

Fair enough that you don't need exams to be a professional musician.

As far as exams go is it better (more accurate?) to say that diplomas require the playing standard to be high enough that you could justifiably charge people to listen to you play while grade exams don't necessarily?

[Manek]

Exams are for amateurs...? But surely making money from music is for professionals...?

I would class somebody who gigs almost nightly and has been on several tours as a professional, even if they hadn't done any diplomae - even if they hadn't done any exams at all, in fact!

However, I would class somebody who has done Grades 1-8 and the Diplomae, yet only really plays at home for personal enjoyment (bar the odd occassional performance at a charity music festival or local school event) as an amateur...

Fair enough that you don't need exams to be a professional musician.

As far as exams go is it better (more accurate?) to say that diplomas require the playing standard to be high enough that you could justifiably charge people to listen to you play while grade exams don't necessarily?

Well, I'm "only" Grade 8 at Drums, and people have paid to see me play...