How do you find a good singing teacher? Options

[Dugazon]

I guess it's all about personal preference, and if good piano skills are high one someone's list, so be it. A word of warning about that though:

It's the job of a singing teacher to teach you singing. That ALWAYS comes first.

I picked up students from singing teachers who were great accompanists, but they hadn't taught them a morsel of technique. If asked what they did in lessons, singing songs/arias and working on them musically (which some people mix up with "technically") to full accompaniment always was the main focus.

One doesn't exclude the other, and a lot of singing teachers are reasonable pianists. It is a fact though that if you focus on an accompaniment, part of that focus is taken off the student, no matter how brilliantly you play. Every student who wants to learn technique has to be sure they are happy with that.

I play alright (wouldn't call myself a pianist though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), but the main focus of my piano lessons at Uni was to virtually simplify any arrangement - we've been specifically trained on this because they knew they don't teach budding pianists, but singers who only need the piano to study songs, or give the student a very basic idea about harmonies.

All the student needs is a basic harmonic concept, and even that doesn't come at the start. If they take exams, it is of course paramount they have practised with accompaniment, but that's easy enough to do (and not necessarily the singing teacher's job in any given case).

I had coaches myself who played the piano far better than me, and none (!) of them ever accompanied me during the technical stages, and only some would accompany when the song was a technical wrap. In fact, the higher up the food chain they were, the less they touched a piano (although they could have done a reasonable job). Probably because they knew their job is to pay 100% attention to what the student does vocally.

To the OP, I guess the question to ask is: What do you want/need? If making music is high on your list, you don't necessarily need a good technique teacher and are probably better off in a music ensemble of some sort (also cheaper). If you want to learn proper technique, you need someone who can teach it. And, as others already said:
Especially in singing, you need someone who can actually teach the style you want to sing, which is different from technique, but has implications on it (as in making certain choices to give you the sound needed for a certain style).

Crossover only makes sense if you want to be a crossover artist. In all other cases, it sounds comical (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Seer_Green]

My old singing teacher had a piano diploma (as well as a higher singing diploma, and diploma in teaching singing) and it didn't really register to me at the time how lucky I was in that she could just play the piano on demand. I think being able to accompany would come high on my list were I looking for a singing teacher now.

Now I've changed my mind on this one. I used to think that I needed a singing teacher to accompany me but I wouldn't be bothered about that now. It's so easy to use backing tracks, etc. that I wouldn't see that as essential. I know this has been discussed here before and that there are a lot of singing teachers on here who can play piano but choose not to accompany for the most part.

I wonder whether it depends on what sort of thing you want to sing? Are backing tracks more easily used for those who want to sing pop songs? (I don't know either way!). For me, I've been lucking to have singing teachers with good piano skills. If I was looking for another one, it wouldn't be top of my list, but I'd see it as favourable, even if the skills were 'limited'. But, as Dugazon quite righty says, it's down to personal preferance: what might bother me might not cross the mind of the next person.

[Alicia Ocean]

Some years ago I was a volunteer pupil at the AOTOS teachers' course. Being taught by a dozen people in one week gave me some strong ideas of what a range of possibilities there are. One "teacher" couldn't actually read music and was baffled by the 9/8 time signature of the Morning Has Broken I'd prepared. For someone looking for a teacher a useful question might be would they be able to teach theory to grade 5 alongside the singing?

[Dugazon]

Some years ago I was a volunteer pupil at the AOTOS teachers' course. Being taught by a dozen people in one week gave me some strong ideas of what a range of possibilities there are. One "teacher" couldn't actually read music and was baffled by the 9/8 time signature of the Morning Has Broken I'd prepared. For someone looking for a teacher a useful question might be would they be able to teach theory to grade 5 alongside the singing?

I totally agree that not everyone who can maybe sing a bit themselves should teach (at least the person you describe was doing some sort of PD though, and everyone needs to start somewhere. Whether they are the right teacher for every type of student is another question).

However, if someone can teach theory alongside the singing only matters if you actually WANT to learn theory/take exams, and if you are prepared spending time of your lesson on it. It isn't the singing teacher's main responsibility to save the student money, and be an accompanist and theory teacher alongside everything else. Their main responsibility is to teach singing. It is also completely legitimate for the student to rather have an allrounder than a specialist though, so it really depends, and it can take a while to find a good match.

A performer preparing for a gig or audition for instance probably doesn't care about exams and theory. They would want someone who can teach (vocal) performance, not someone who points out the time signature of a piece, what key it is in, and what's the difference between a crotchet and a quaver. It's really horses for courses.

Again, it all comes down to what the prospective student requires, what level they are at, what their goals are. These are questions students needs to ask themselves. The only responsibility of the teacher is to honestly answer if that's what they can offer.

[Alicia Ocean]

However, if someone can teach theory alongside the singing only matters if you actually WANT to learn theory/take exams, and if you are prepared spending time of your lesson on it.

I meant it would be a useful thing to ask about - not in order to learn theory but to know whether the teacher actually has some knowledge about this.

[JudithJ]

I'm looking for a voice teacher who can train me to use my voice without feeling or sounding strained. I also need help to extend my length of phrases that I can sing without having to take another breath, and help to access my higher range.

I don't want to perform, I want to teach piano and musicianship (and perhaps choirs) to children and adult starters. I need to end up with a voice which sounds pure and clear rather than sounding like an opera singer - a voice which my pupils would be easily able to copy.

How would you describe that need over the phone to a potential teacher?

[Seer_Green]

I'm looking for a voice teacher who can train me to use my voice without feeling or sounding strained. I also need help to extend my length of phrases that I can sing without having to take another breath, and help to access my higher range.

I don't want to perform, I want to teach piano and musicianship (and perhaps choirs) to children and adult starters. I need to end up with a voice which sounds pure and clear rather than sounding like an opera singer - a voice which my pupils would be easily able to copy.

How would you describe that need over the phone to a potential teacher?

I would understand totally what you meant, so I'd say just as you've written here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Maria]

I'm looking for a voice teacher who can train me to use my voice without feeling or sounding strained. I also need help to extend my length of phrases that I can sing without having to take another breath, and help to access my higher range.

I don't want to perform, I want to teach piano and musicianship (and perhaps choirs) to children and adult starters. I need to end up with a voice which sounds pure and clear rather than sounding like an opera singer - a voice which my pupils would be easily able to copy.

How would you describe that need over the phone to a potential teacher?

I would understand totally what you meant, so I'd say just as you've written here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yep! Just say exactly that. And maybe what sort of style of music you've envisage your choirs singing as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JudithJ]

Well, that appears to be a consensus! Thanks everyone.

Sorry to be taking over your thread Viledin4u.


One more question: Does anyone have a recommendation of a voice teacher near the Hampshire/Surrey border?

[silverfoxx]

My old singing teacher had a piano diploma (as well as a higher singing diploma, and diploma in teaching singing) and it didn't really register to me at the time how lucky I was in that she could just play the piano on demand. I think being able to accompany would come high on my list were I looking for a singing teacher now.

Qualifications are nice but unnecessary - if I wanted to take exams I'd be asking about past results, particularly at the higher grades (as I've got grade 5), and an ability to accompany to some degree in the lessons - even if it was not good enough for exam purposes (I accompany my own pupils in flute lessons but not exams).

There's some pretty good and some pretty advance advice being given here for someone looking to start out with a new singing teacher. There's a danger that some of the advice given will encourage potential singers to run before they can walk.

A singing teacher should be the person who teaches you how to sing first and foremost. Along the way the singing teacher will develop the voice by using exercises in breathing, projection, dynamics, phrasing,tonality, colouration, diction and a myriad of other essential but very taxing things which all contribute towards a student becoming a successful singer. None of this has anything whatsoever to do with the teacher skills in accompaniment

The teacher will do this in most instances by demonstrating what is required in some way or other. Usually the teacher will use a piano , or some other keyboard which will further be useful as an accompanying instrument. But a piano is not actually essential for a student to learn how to sing. It merely becomes a requirement to be well rehearsed at accompanied singing in order to comply with exam requirements and for some performance purposes.

So the standard of any accompanist in the early stages of learning how to sing is less important than in the more advanced stages where the musical accompaniment becomes pretty challenging stuff.

It would be ideal if the singing teacher is a highly skilled piano accompanist as it is at the core of an accompanists skill set to be able to support the singer from the outset, and not to inadvertently become the soloist. But this highly skilled accompanist may know very little about the art and physical skill involved in singing.

Most music schools and conservatoires have as an entry requirement that students hold keyboard skills at ABRSM grade 5 or equivalent. The assumption therefore is that these students have had an opportunity to practice these skills in the process of learning. So soloists should have a modicum of confidence in singing teachers who hold qualifications from these music institutions.

What is important is the standard at which they can demonstrate singing technique at all levels.

[Maria]

There's a danger that some of the advice given will encourage potential singers to run before they can walk.

What part of the advice given makes you think that?

[Dulcet]

Well, that appears to be a consensus! Thanks everyone.

Sorry to be taking over your thread Viledin4u.


One more question: Does anyone have a recommendation of a voice teacher near the Hampshire/Surrey border?

Yes, I can recommend two in NE Hants (OK not THAT close to the surrey border but not too far away) if you PM me.

[silverfoxx]

There's a danger that some of the advice given will encourage potential singers to run before they can walk.

What part of the advice given makes you think that?

Hi Maria,

I attempted to explain this in my last post. You may see I make reference to some contributions to this thread which seem to over emphasise a singing teacher's credibility as an accompanist , with no reference to any training whatsoever in vocal technique and performance skills.

To do this will likely result in a singer learning very little from a simple accompanist who has little or no experience teaching singing . Indeed there is every likelihood that the singer will pick up very bad singing habits early on as the accompanist plays their heart out at concert standard, only to miss what the singer is doing at any given moment during practice .

These errors will take forever to correct and may result in serious but completely avoidable damage to the vocal folds in this way.

The question posed by vile din was about a singing teacher and the inclusion within the context of our discussion ,any additional question of any standard of accompaniment skills should be taken as a handy bonus by the singing student.

[Alicia Ocean]

I make reference to some contributions to this thread which seem to over emphasise a singing teacher's credibility as an accompanist , with no reference to any training whatsoever in vocal technique and performance skills.

Are you referring to my post? - where I described my teacher's accpompaying skills? - I'm pretty sure I mentioned her performance and teaching diplomas in Singing.

[silverfoxx]

I make reference to some contributions to this thread which seem to over emphasise a singing teacher's credibility as an accompanist , with no reference to any training whatsoever in vocal technique and performance skills.

Are you referring to my post? - where I described my teacher's accpompaying skills? - I'm pretty sure I mentioned her performance and teaching diplomas in Singing.

If your post tended to over eemphasise the importance of accompaniments skills . Then a most emphatic yes I am referring to your post. If you are not referring to an over emphasis on accompaniment skills.Then, No I am NOT referring to your post.

Can we now return to the question posed which was far from this petty squabbling about who said what to whom and offer vile din some meaningful advice on the question of singing teacher selection?