Recorder Thread!, All Sizes Welcome... Options

[barry-clari]

So for 2012, are there likely to be new recorder repertoire lists?

Trinity usually change all the lists with each new booklet : so the likelihood is that there'll be a new list for recorder for 2012. Cannot be 100% sure though.

[Maizie]

I am reading about different pitches of recorder, and have come across the following sentence that has made my brain melt:

you can get a feel for French pitch by using your tenor in c' (A440) as a voice flute in d' at A392. Learn to play your tenor as though it was in d' (d' being the note you would normally finger as c' -- the best way is to pretend your tenor is an alto and read the alto clef as the bass clef - watch out for some accidentals!).

[Yet another muso]

Well it turns out I am going recorder shopping out of the blue tomorrow. My Mum has decided she wants a treble recorder for a joint birthday and christmas present, and would like me to get it for her since I live in London, and she lives nowhere near any good music shops. Before anybody suggests she ought to try the instruments herself, she has a phobia of playing something that might have somebody else's germs on it!

She is basically an enthusiastic amateur who wants to play the instrument lots for her own pleasure. Having spent most of her life teaching the piano, she is now returning the recorder in her retirement having played a little at music college. She does a little ensemble playing, but her most important thing is an instrument which she can enjoy playing alone. Also when I visit her I accompany her on the piano, and it exposes the fact that her current instrument seems perpetually flat - it has to be pushed fully in and played forte at all times to just about meet the piano's pitch. So her priorities are a beautiful tone and reliable intonation that will match with a piano at A=440. Her current instrument is a very basic one - she is anticipating spending around ?400, but her knowledge of the market is limited and I know even less.

I am planning to go to the Early Music Shop in London. I have never been before - is it the best place to go in London? She likes to play early music repertoire but more contemporary repertoire as well. I assume the Early Music Shop sells instruments which are adaptable for all repertoire, not just authentic early music instruments? I am going in the hope that they will be able to offer some good advice, but does anybody in the know have any further advice on what I could consider going for?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom that anyone might have.

[Halka]

I am reading about different pitches of recorder, and have come across the following sentence that has made my brain melt:

you can get a feel for French pitch by using your tenor in c' (A440) as a voice flute in d' at A392. Learn to play your tenor as though it was in d' (d' being the note you would normally finger as c' -- the best way is to pretend your tenor is an alto and read the alto clef as the bass clef - watch out for some accidentals!).

Never mind melting, my brain's evaporating! However, having thought about this, I think "alto clef" in your quote should read "treble" which removes one level of complication, at least - ie you treat your tenor as if you're playing a treble from bass clef.

[Halka]

Before anybody suggests she ought to try the instruments herself, she has a phobia of playing something that might have somebody else's germs on it!

This sounds just like my mum. She has a horror of what she refers to as "spitty dirt"!

I am planning to go to the Early Music Shop in London. I have never been before - is it the best place to go in London? She likes to play early music repertoire but more contemporary repertoire as well. I assume the Early Music Shop sells instruments which are adaptable for all repertoire, not just authentic early music instruments? I am going in the hope that they will be able to offer some good advice, but does anybody in the know have any further advice on what I could consider going for?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom that anyone might have.

I haven't been to the Early Music Shop since they moved, but bought my tenor in the old shop and found them very helpful, and yes they do have all sorts, pitches and prices of recorder so I'm sure you'll find something suitable. If you want to try something specific, it's worth ringing ahead as the stock seems much more limited than the on line catalogue might suggest. For instance, when my daughter was small I went in to ask about treble recorders with keys, as they had various on the website. There were none in the shop itself, and the assistant that day didn't know much about them..

Both the wooden trebles in our house are the most basic Kungs (mine's cherry, daughter's is pear). These were bought unseen, as presents. They sound good, but I struggle with the highest notes on mine. My more expensive Kung tenor is great. We've also got Moeck and Mollenhauer recorders that we're very happy with, so I'd recommend you just try out lots of recorders in your price range and see what you like.

[andante_in_c]

Yes, the Early Music shop is the place to go. If it's mainly for solo work I'd suggest you look at boxwood and/or olivewood models, which have a firmer sound than the softwoods but are reasonably light to handle (Freudian slip - I wrote Handel at first :rolleyes).

Depending on your budget I would look at the Mollenhauer Denner range, the Moeck Rottenburgs and the Kung and Marsyas recorders.

You can get some ideas from the website here.

[katyjay]

Well it turns out I am going recorder shopping out of the blue tomorrow. My Mum has decided she wants a treble recorder for a joint birthday and christmas present, and would like me to get it for her since I live in London, and she lives nowhere near any good music shops. Before anybody suggests she ought to try the instruments herself, she has a phobia of playing something that might have somebody else's germs on it!

She is basically an enthusiastic amateur who wants to play the instrument lots for her own pleasure. Having spent most of her life teaching the piano, she is now returning the recorder in her retirement having played a little at music college. She does a little ensemble playing, but her most important thing is an instrument which she can enjoy playing alone. Also when I visit her I accompany her on the piano, and it exposes the fact that her current instrument seems perpetually flat - it has to be pushed fully in and played forte at all times to just about meet the piano's pitch. So her priorities are a beautiful tone and reliable intonation that will match with a piano at A=440. Her current instrument is a very basic one - she is anticipating spending around ?400, but her knowledge of the market is limited and I know even less.

I am planning to go to the Early Music Shop in London. I have never been before - is it the best place to go in London? She likes to play early music repertoire but more contemporary repertoire as well. I assume the Early Music Shop sells instruments which are adaptable for all repertoire, not just authentic early music instruments? I am going in the hope that they will be able to offer some good advice, but does anybody in the know have any further advice on what I could consider going for?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom that anyone might have.

Hi there!

To answer the easy bit of your post first, the Early Music Shop is a very good (or very bad if you're me) place to buy a recorder. They will have a good selection in stock from a variety of manufacturers at a variety of prices. And unless you go out of your way to buy something really unusual, any instrument you get will be suitable for the vast majority of repertoire, modern as well as baroque or earlier.

In terms of what to look at, there are lots of variables.

Hand shape - different instruments will have the holes aligned slightly differently. There are trebles I just plain can't play (Mollenhauer Dream for example) because my hands won't comfortably cover the holes. Also the size of the holes can vary - I find that instruments with large holes are problematic with my very narrow fingers. Buying something that doesn't fit one's hands is a total waste of money.

The type of wood the instrument's made out of will affect the way it sounds - softer woods such as pearwood or maple have a gentler sound that blends better in consorts, harder woods e.g. ebony, boxwood, palisander stand out more for solo playing. Softer woods tend to be cheaper, harder woods dearer. Another risk point is that some people are allergic to some woods - I know of at least one player on these forums who has had to exchange instruments after suffering a reaction to their first choice instrument.

Different manufacturers will have a different approach to voicing. Among my trebles, I have a Moeck instrument that is particularly good on the low notes, but is not so nice at the top end of the range as the Mollenhauer I've played. That in turn is less agile and consistent across the range than my Marsyas treble, which sounds quite different even though it's the same wood.

The other thing to bear in mind is that any instrument you buy (apart from mass-produced plastic ones) is likely to have been tested before it gets to you. That applies even more so to the instruments out on the EMS's shelves. But the good news is that wood is self-sterilising, so it's not a problem playing an instrument someone else has played before.

In terms of makes to look out for - Kung, as Halka mentions, are good. Moeck and Mollenhauer are the big names in the business. Dolmetsch don't sell through the EMS, but their wooden instruments are pretty nice - the treble I use for teaching is a bottom-of-the-range Dolmetsch, well below the budget you're looking at but a comfortable play and pretty well voiced. Yamaha do some wood as well as being one of the big leaders in plastic instruments.

Hope this helps, if you have any queries, just ask.

[anacrusis]

It really is pointless to get upset about mouth germs: chances are that any wooden instrument will have been blown by someone else previously, because the only way to find out what suits is to try - and for the purpose of tuning, recorder making workshops have technicians who blow down the instruments to check they're right. Plastic instruments may be sterilisable but I'd go for wood every time, in any case, because wood will self sterilise - the fibres apparently make a very hostile environment for bacteria anyway.
I'd second the EMS: they have a very good range of options, and if the London shop is anything like the Saltaire one, some good technical advice available too.

whoops, sorry KJ, I realise I've just said the same as you had already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[Yet another muso]

Thanks to all those who have given such helpful advice. My Mum has just called me and said that looking at finances she now wants to put her new recorder off until next year so it seems I am not going shopping tomorrow after all. Still, as and when I go shopping (or better still if I actually persuade her to go to the shop herself), I now know where to go and have a much better idea of what I am looking for.

I fully agree that the germs worry is just my Mum being silly. Of course all high quality instruments will have been tested at the very least, but that is a reality my Mum doesn't want to confront as she's a bit paranoid about all things to do with health. The idea was that if I got one on her behalf, I would then not let on that others had tried it before!

[AlexV]

I fully agree that the germs worry is just my Mum being silly.

It is important to feel comfortable with one's instrument. To put oneself at ease, it is possible to wash the part of the instrument touching the player's lips with some soapy water, or even take a cotton swab and wipe it with some vinegar. The smell of vinegar will stay for several weeks, and perhaps it's not the nicest smell, but it assures the player that the instrument is sterile.

[notmusimum]

Really excited!! We've got a Cherry Wood Bass on approval. Can't wait for the potential owner to try it this evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Halka]

Really excited!! We've got a Cherry Wood Bass on approval. Can't wait for the potential owner to try it this evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ooh! What make and model?

[barry-clari]

Really excited!! We've got a Cherry Wood Bass on approval. Can't wait for the potential owner to try it this evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Oh excellent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Will be interested to see how she goes with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[anacrusis]

I fully agree that the germs worry is just my Mum being silly.

It is important to feel comfortable with one's instrument. To put oneself at ease, it is possible to wash the part of the instrument touching the player's lips with some soapy water, or even take a cotton swab and wipe it with some vinegar. The smell of vinegar will stay for several weeks, and perhaps it's not the nicest smell, but it assures the player that the instrument is sterile.

I doubt vinegar would sterilise it... just being wood will do the job fine anyway.

[notmusimum]

Really excited!! We've got a Cherry Wood Bass on approval. Can't wait for the potential owner to try it this evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ooh! What make and model?

It's the Kung superio, she tried it and it sounds lovely, just have to get it past her teacher now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)