Jazz V Classical Options

[onemoretime]

Hi, this is my first post as only just registered. I would like advice from anyone who can help please.
I passed grade 5 clarinet about 30 years ago and could never get my head around the theory to go any further. My teacher now is my husband (A Jazz musician) what is different between theory of classical and Jazz and where can I find details, he's a fine tutor but all his students sort this stuff out for themselves. I have searched the various sections and can't find anything. I was also diagnosed with dyslexia and dispraxia a couple of years ago. Any giudance appreciated.

[windy]

Hi and welcome to the forums!

there is no difference to me between jazz and classical theory, its all music and as such the way to get better at it is by doing lots of it!

What is it you want to know? how to improvise? how to pass grade 5 theory? if you can be more specific then I'm sure the friendly forumites will be able to help you out.

[pianophrase]

Hi, this is my first post as only just registered. I would like advice from anyone who can help please.
I passed grade 5 clarinet about 30 years ago and could never get my head around the theory to go any further. My teacher now is my husband (A Jazz musician) what is different between theory of classical and Jazz and where can I find details, he's a fine tutor but all his students sort this stuff out for themselves. I have searched the various sections and can't find anything. I was also diagnosed with dyslexia and dispraxia a couple of years ago. Any giudance appreciated.

Hi 'onemoretime' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.gif)


You may have more replies if you post in the 'Theory & Composition' forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Also just looking around the ABRSM website will give you alot of info about the requirements needed for G5 Theory (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


...and while your looking, why don't you have a look at the 'Forum events' section in the 'General Music Forum' there are some brilliant music events listed particularly for adult learners of all abilities (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bobilleg74]

Jazz theory has a lot to do with the relationships between chords and scales etc.

A fantastic book that sets things out very clearly is 'The Jazz Theory Book' by Mark Levine. It covers practically everything you'd need to know and is very accessible.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Theory-Book-M...e/dp/1883217040

Also, there are plenty of places online where you can download it as a torrent. Not really sure what they are though!

[Donna Gross Javel]

Hi, this is my first post as only just registered. I would like advice from anyone who can help please.
I passed grade 5 clarinet about 30 years ago and could never get my head around the theory to go any further. My teacher now is my husband (A Jazz musician) what is different between theory of classical and Jazz and where can I find details, he's a fine tutor but all his students sort this stuff out for themselves. I have searched the various sections and can't find anything. I was also diagnosed with dyslexia and dispraxia a couple of years ago. Any giudance appreciated.

[Mad Tom]

Jazz uses a lot of chords that hardly figure in classical music, added 11ths 13ths, additional suspensions etc. are commonplace., and also uses "blue" notes (slightly flattened 3rd and 6th of the scale - intermediate between major and minor). It also makes use of more scale patterns than the major and two minors common in "classical" music, and the occasional pentatonic or whole tone scale (as used by Debussy).

Rhythmically a dotted crotchet and quaver ar played more like a crotchet/quaver triplet. (akak Swing).

But regarding the underlying theory (where the notes come from in the harmonic sequence) the theory of building scales, the concepts of consonance/dissonance, making meaningful chord progressions, modulation, basic structure, they are part of the same tradition.

It is in practice and performance that the jazz and classical worlds differ most (creation and performance as a single act vs precise reproduction of a fully worked out composition). It was not always like that ... until thw 20th Century classical musicians were expected to improvise spontaneously, or to create a full working out of a skeleton composition ... though it would not have sounded like what we now think of as jazz ... it was similar in spirit.

[muse]

I think of music as a tree - and each style a different branch of that same tree. The modes are within the trunk of the tree and everything stems from here. Perhaps doesn't help you much, but I always think of it this way.

Are you doing ABRSM theory or Trinity? I personally find trinity better if you study jazz.

I started studying theory only a few years ago - I thought I could start from grade 5 (I had only done grade 2 previously). But found I had to go all the way back to grade 3 - as I couldn't get my head around grade 5 at all. I got a distinction, and was able to study grade 4 and 5 in a short space of time allowing me to skip grade 4. I then studied grade 6 and 7 with trinity as I found it more relevant to the music I studied (and also because I just couldn't get along with the 6+ abrsm workbooks). I skipped 6 and got grade 7 with a merit and I'm now studying grade 8 just for fun. All this within 2 years... without a teacher. And I thought I'd be one of these people who would never be able to pass theory - in fact when I started studying grade 3, I found the first page so difficult that I threw the book in the drawer and left it for several years before I found the courage to actually get stuck in, I don't know how it happened but it did! I found this forum a great source of information and I wouldn't be without it, the internet especially wiki is good too for general understanding of certain concepts.

Oh, and welcome to the forum! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Hils]

what is different between theory of classical and Jazz and where can I find details

The conventions for labelling chords are different in jazz and classical theory. Since it sounds as though you do not have a lot of experience in naming chords in either system, I would suggest that you try to decide which would be most useful to you in your playing? If you hope to play more jazz than anything else, and want to get involved in improvising and reading fake books etc, then immerse yourself in the jazz way. That way you will learn the different modes and not just the major and minor scales, and be able to read the jazz chords (the letter and number style eg G7 etc).

If you are sticking with classical in the main, then as others have suggested start with the AB theory books at a level you are comfortable and build from there, with the understanding that they focus on the classical conventions - so they concentrate on the major and minor scales and key signatures rather than modes and encourage you to label chords with roman numerals or figured bass in the classical style.

It is confusing to learn two systems at once since they describe the same thing in different ways. I'd say better to get reasonably fluent in one language first, but ... only a suggestion!

[onemoretime]

Thank You all for the advice, guidance and general info. You have answered my question and I think I will try my best with classical to gain grades as it is a challenge I need to take. I love listening to Jazz though and have decided that once I have reached a decent level I will buy a saxophone and play Jazz. I also have an ambition to play St Thomas as I am a Sonny Rollins fan to name one.

[Hils]

Thank You all for the advice, guidance and general info. You have answered my question and I think I will try my best with classical to gain grades as it is a challenge I need to take. I love listening to Jazz though and have decided that once I have reached a decent level I will buy a saxophone and play Jazz. I also have an ambition to play St Thomas as I am a Sonny Rollins fan to name one.

Sounds very sensible - thanks as well for taking the time to post your feedback here, it's good to know you've come to a decision you are happy with - enjoy the journey!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Doug]

There is a very fine book called 'A Classical Approach to Jazz Piano' by Dominic Alldis which sets out to explain jazz theory from a classical musicians point of view. Almost all of jazz theory can be found in classical/western art music, it's just a matter of semantics. Tritone substitution in jazz theory is really Neopolitan harmony in classical terms, to name one. However, there are rhythmic differences to consider. Harmony is harmony, whether it is jazz or classical; the late great jazz pianist Bill evans, possibly the most influencial jazz pianist of all times, took much of his harmonic repertoire from the classical and impressionist composers - Ravel, Debussy etc.