Diploma(Teaching), Unfair exam experience? Options

[Rachfan]

I took my Dip ABRSM teaching on Monday. I have been teaching for 27 years and decided to do this for the experiece and challenge- something I should have done when I was younger.
I bought all the piano pieces so I knew the complete Grade 6 syllabus. I could even play the lot! I took a range of materials, my planning folder, a pupil's notebook and other resources. I was gunning for a Distinction.
My slot was 12 noon till 1pm. BAD TIMING!! The Viva Voce was awful. It wasn't the actual question content, but the lack of opportunity I had to respond thoroughly! I was shocked ad it put me off immediately. The specialist was pleasant enough but I felt he was a little agitated and wanted to get it over with. Why do examiners exude this feeling? As a result, I was not able to show my true self as a teacher. There is absolutely no way on Earth that they will have gleaned my teaching skills and practice. I am very upset and feel let down. I am sure I will have failed, purely on the basis that my answers were not thorough as he went on to the next question before I had chance to complete the previous one!
What was also off putting was that he kept looking at his ( very expensive) watch. Why not have a little clock on the table instead, then it isn't obvious to the candidate that they are taking stock of every millisecond? Can't help thinking that lunch was beckoning.
The quick study I enjoyed as I like sight reading.
At the end, he asked me if I wanted to say anything else, using the words," do you have anything burning that you would like to add- but you don't have to!". I managed to get one quick mention in about the importance of playing duets, then he sent me on my way. The generalist was far better at questioning and I felt at ease with him ,though he only asked me 2 questions.
This exam is not worth the fee at all.Frustration isn't the word. I have emailed the Board with my concerns, but it won't alter the bitter disappointment I feel. Suppose a couple of G and T's over Christmas may help! Anyone else had a similar experience?

[Seer_Green]

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a very good experience for your teaching dip. The teaching dips I've done have been very informal and there's been plenty of opportunity to talk and get your point across. There is inevitably a lot of variation in the examiners though and I know someone who was repeated challenged over one particular difference of opinion in their dip.

I think you've done the right thing in voicing your concerns to the Board. Wait and see what the result is then decide what to do. If it wasn't what you were hoping for, you could put in a formal complaint, and the exam is recorded so the evidence is there.

Good luck with it - I'm sure you'll have done fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Enjoy Christmas and forget about it!

[Rachfan]

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a very good experience for your teaching dip. The teaching dips I've done have been very informal and there's been plenty of opportunity to talk and get your point across. There is inevitably a lot of variation in the examiners though and I know someone who was repeated challenged over one particular difference of opinion in their dip.

I think you've done the right thing in voicing your concerns to the Board. Wait and see what the result is then decide what to do. If it wasn't what you were hoping for, you could put in a formal complaint, and the exam is recorded so the evidence is there.

Good luck with it - I'm sure you'll have done fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Enjoy Christmas and forget about it!

[jod]

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a very good experience for your teaching dip. The teaching dips I've done have been very informal and there's been plenty of opportunity to talk and get your point across. There is inevitably a lot of variation in the examiners though and I know someone who was repeated challenged over one particular difference of opinion in their dip.

I think you've done the right thing in voicing your concerns to the Board. Wait and see what the result is then decide what to do. If it wasn't what you were hoping for, you could put in a formal complaint, and the exam is recorded so the evidence is there.

Good luck with it - I'm sure you'll have done fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Enjoy Christmas and forget about it!

I agree with Seer_Green about voicing concerns to the board.

12pm-1pm may be when the examiner (and you) want your lunch, but that is no reason for them to rush you in your Viva Voce.

Despite your 27 years of teaching, you probably were not in the position of making a statement about clock watching and how inappropriate it is under such circumstances due to the importance of the occasion. Clock Watching, when somebody is talking to you is extremely rude and offensive at the best of times and gives one the impression they are not listening to you and they are not listening.

I'm sure you are aware of the Classroom Management technique of Clock-watching when the rabble will not be quiet and delaying their departure for break or lunch! As a teacher you may have though the next thing you were going to get were a couple of pages of lines 'I must not bore my examiner!'

Of course you may have passed...

If it is not the result you wanted, as Seer_Green has stated the whole thing is recorded, and you have voiced your concerns here, which will act as a contemporaneous record of how you felt at the time. I think there is grounds for an appeal, and am really sorry you had such a negative experience.

Don't let it ruin your Christmas, as either way there should be a happy outcome.

[Rachfan]

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a very good experience for your teaching dip. The teaching dips I've done have been very informal and there's been plenty of opportunity to talk and get your point across. There is inevitably a lot of variation in the examiners though and I know someone who was repeated challenged over one particular difference of opinion in their dip.

I think you've done the right thing in voicing your concerns to the Board. Wait and see what the result is then decide what to do. If it wasn't what you were hoping for, you could put in a formal complaint, and the exam is recorded so the evidence is there.

Good luck with it - I'm sure you'll have done fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Enjoy Christmas and forget about it!

[dolcebaby]

Sorry you had a bad experience. I suppose it's possible they were moving on becuase you had given a satisfactory answer and they wanted to give you the chance to answer as many quesitons as possible? I know that's easy for me to say as I wasn't there.

Clock-watching is rude, but am slightly mystified as to why it matters that the examiner's watch was very expensive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[morceau]

Sorry you had a bad experience. I suppose it's possible they were moving on becuase you had given a satisfactory answer and they wanted to give you the chance to answer as many quesitons as possible? I know that's easy for me to say as I wasn't there.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I was going to say this.

Clock-watching is rude, but am slightly mystified as to why it matters that the examiner's watch was very expensive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I assumed the OP meant it was very large (usually equates with expensive, but not necessarily I suppose) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Sioni]

I took my Dip ABRSM teaching on Monday. I have been teaching for 27 years and decided to do this for the experiece and challenge- something I should have done when I was younger.
I bought all the piano pieces so I knew the complete Grade 6 syllabus. I could even play the lot! I took a range of materials, my planning folder, a pupil's notebook and other resources. I was gunning for a Distinction.
My slot was 12 noon till 1pm. BAD TIMING!! The Viva Voce was awful. It wasn't the actual question content, but the lack of opportunity I had to respond thoroughly! I was shocked ad it put me off immediately. The specialist was pleasant enough but I felt he was a little agitated and wanted to get it over with. Why do examiners exude this feeling? As a result, I was not able to show my true self as a teacher. There is absolutely no way on Earth that they will have gleaned my teaching skills and practice. I am very upset and feel let down. I am sure I will have failed, purely on the basis that my answers were not thorough as he went on to the next question before I had chance to complete the previous one!
What was also off putting was that he kept looking at his ( very expensive) watch. Why not have a little clock on the table instead, then it isn't obvious to the candidate that they are taking stock of every millisecond? Can't help thinking that lunch was beckoning.
The quick study I enjoyed as I like sight reading.
At the end, he asked me if I wanted to say anything else, using the words," do you have anything burning that you would like to add- but you don't have to!". I managed to get one quick mention in about the importance of playing duets, then he sent me on my way. The generalist was far better at questioning and I felt at ease with him ,though he only asked me 2 questions.
This exam is not worth the fee at all.Frustration isn't the word. I have emailed the Board with my concerns, but it won't alter the bitter disappointment I feel. Suppose a couple of G and T's over Christmas may help! Anyone else had a similar experience?

Hi Rachfan

Mine was last Saturday and that was absolutely awful too. No clock watching but I felt that the examiner and I were at odds with each other somehow - I just didn't 'get him' if you know what I mean. I had to ask him to repeat some questions too. I had very little opporunity to demonstrate my knowledge of the three grade 6 pieces - the questioning was too vague in my opinion. The generalist didn't get out of his chair once and he didn't say a word until the very end when he asked me one question "do you have something else you'd like to tell us?" - by that time I'd had enough and wanted to get out of there. Looks like I'll be taking the resit next year. Incidentally, I'm not an inexperienced teacher.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Minuet3]

When I took my teaching dip a few years ago, I felt the specialist examiner had a slightly strange choice of words. I was well prepared to answer questions and was an experienced teacher, but it wasn't always easy to understand exactly what was being asked. Several times, he cut me short, and then rephrased the question in a more obvious way. He seemed satisfied with the answers on the second attempt, and frequently cut me short during those answers. When the results came, I had passed with 67%, annoyingly short of that distinction. I would have been perfectly happy with that mark though, except for the comment on my sheet that I offered good answers "when prompted"! I didn't need prompting, I needed a clearer question! With strong written work and quick study, I felt that is where those 3 marks went, I didn't make any objection at the time, as it felt like I might have been seen as petty or pushy, but it still irks a bit, if I'm honest.

I wonder how often the recordings of the diplomas are used to moderate the examiners, rather than the candidates? After all, there is a record of the event, and I think that in a pressurised situation like that, the examiners should be making everything as clear and straightforward as possible.

If you have concerns, perhaps best to voice them before the results are issued. Then it won't look like sour grapes. Perhaps they do rush you along if they have heard enough to be satisfied, but if that makes a candidate more nervous during the process, or more concerned about the integrity of the process, then they need to think more about whether it is truly necessary. Good luck for the results anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/goodLuck.gif)

[Alicia Ocean]

This thread is not encouraging me to consider a teaching diploma.

[katyjay]

Maybe I should offer some balance.

I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of my teaching diploma. The examiners were friendly and positive, the questions I was asked were pretty-open ended, and I was able to talk a lot about my teaching ideas.

I was asked some questions about my prepared pieces, but not a lot. There was one question that needed some prompting, and one that I didn't know the answer to.

The reading beforehand and analysing my technique and repertoire taught me a great deal too.

I'd say "go for it" to anyone who's contemplating it.

[Sioni]

I took my Dip ABRSM teaching on Monday. I have been teaching for 27 years and decided to do this for the experiece and challenge- something I should have done when I was younger.
I bought all the piano pieces so I knew the complete Grade 6 syllabus. I could even play the lot! I took a range of materials, my planning folder, a pupil's notebook and other resources. I was gunning for a Distinction.
My slot was 12 noon till 1pm. BAD TIMING!! The Viva Voce was awful. It wasn't the actual question content, but the lack of opportunity I had to respond thoroughly! I was shocked ad it put me off immediately. The specialist was pleasant enough but I felt he was a little agitated and wanted to get it over with. Why do examiners exude this feeling? As a result, I was not able to show my true self as a teacher. There is absolutely no way on Earth that they will have gleaned my teaching skills and practice. I am very upset and feel let down. I am sure I will have failed, purely on the basis that my answers were not thorough as he went on to the next question before I had chance to complete the previous one!
What was also off putting was that he kept looking at his ( very expensive) watch. Why not have a little clock on the table instead, then it isn't obvious to the candidate that they are taking stock of every millisecond? Can't help thinking that lunch was beckoning.
The quick study I enjoyed as I like sight reading.
At the end, he asked me if I wanted to say anything else, using the words," do you have anything burning that you would like to add- but you don't have to!". I managed to get one quick mention in about the importance of playing duets, then he sent me on my way. The generalist was far better at questioning and I felt at ease with him ,though he only asked me 2 questions.
This exam is not worth the fee at all.Frustration isn't the word. I have emailed the Board with my concerns, but it won't alter the bitter disappointment I feel. Suppose a couple of G and T's over Christmas may help! Anyone else had a similar experience?

Will candidates have the opportunity to provide feedback or is it all down to the tapes?

[Appassionata]

I have to agree with Katyjay. My teaching diploma exam was quite enjoyable too and I got to play my 3 chosen grade 6 pieces unaccompanied. The questions were well focused and relevant. I think I had very generous examiners though, as I ended up with 78%! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[barry-clari]

I have to agree with Katyjay. My teaching diploma exam was quite enjoyable too and I got to play my 3 chosen grade 6 pieces unaccompanied. The questions were well focused and relevant. I think I had very generous examiners though, as I ended up with 78%! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've recently been umm-ing and aah-ing about whether to try the DipABRSM in clari teaching, this is very encouraging to read : thanks Appassionata! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Seer_Green]

I have to agree with Katyjay. My teaching diploma exam was quite enjoyable too and I got to play my 3 chosen grade 6 pieces unaccompanied. The questions were well focused and relevant.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Mine was also fun.

I think you have to remember that the viva is a discussion rather than a question and answer session. Being able to put your point of view across is, in my view, part of the assessment.

A previous poster mentioned that some of the questions were a bit 'vague' - this doesn't surprise me, and is possibly deliberate. I tend to think of what the examiner says as a 'starter' - beyond that I think it's up to the candidate to develop the discussion. Some of the people I've worked with who are preparing for teaching diplomas expect the viva to be a bit like a job interview where the examiners have a set series of questions to ask - I don't think this is the case.

The OP mentioned about the examiners moving on to the next question too quickly. I think there are several reasons for this. Firstly, if the examiner feels that your response is sufficient, then it is more worthwhile to move on to something else. Secondly, if they feel that your response is not very coherent, then they may ask another question either to enable you to clarify what you mean, or to enable you to demonstrate your knowledge in a different way. In the same way that examiners may curtail performances at the higher grades, this is not necessarily a negative thing.

For anyone who's thinking of entering for one of the teaching diplomas, I do urge you to seek advice and guidance as you prepare - this might be from someone who's taken the diploma previously, or from a teacher. Dare I say that years of teaching experience is not necessarily enough in these situations - they are, by their very nature, artificial - being able to demonstrate knowlege and skill in that sort of environment is not easy, whatever you teaching background.