Flute upgrade - Grade 8 and beyond Options

[JPK]

We are looking at upgrading my daughter's flute; she currently has the Yamaha 311 and is studying grade 8. She is 15 and wishes to continue her music studies at conservatoire/college/university with flute as her prinicpal instrument. We are looking at spending around ?4000 with the intention of it seeing her through the next stage of her studies.

We are taking a trip to London to a couple of woodwind shops to ensure she tries as many out as possible to find out what suits her and what she likes. From my research I have come up with the following and wondered if any of you could give me any further advice. All have silver head and body.

Muramatsu GX
Miyazawa 402 or 602
Altus 1107
Pearl Elegante 795 coda
Mateki M0-031
Sankyo CF301


Other things to consider:

Open/Closed hole
inline/offset G key
Split E mechanism
C#trill /D# roller
Gold lipplate
partial brogger/brogger system


All advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
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[Lemontree]

I don't know about Great Britain, but for university level, a sterling flute wouldn't be sufficient at a German music academy (university level). So, I would suggest, if your daughter wants to pursue such a career and study at music academy, what instrument quality is required.

As for the instruments below: I recently tested quite an amount of flutes for exactly this purpose. And as it comes to the Pearl flutes, I would rather opt for the Pearl Cantablile as for the Elegante, because that is the first of the Pearl flutes, where a difference is significantly there, when it comes to about everything (tone, fingering, resistance of the keys and such).

I know from the US, that the Powell Sonare is one choice for university level, however, I do not know it's price.

You should, however, go for open hole. Open hole allowes micro-adjustments in tone and is necessary for advanced flute techniques for (very) modern music. So, I would rather have an open holed one with plugs then one, I could not fully put to use.

As for inline and offset, that is rather a question of hand size and - in my case positioning. I had - as I already told in other threads - a nerv running exactly where the flute was resting on the left hand. Though very very small hands, I rather accidentily bought an inline G flute, which is supposed for larger hands, but which happend to shift the position of the flute of about 1/8 of an inch. Just the amount to get it off that nerv. Otherwise, it isn't a question of playing quality, just of gripping comfort.

Gold lipplate is just for better looks and allergies which, however, shouldn't be existent, if it is sterling. The only thing I would consider is an engravement, since that is used to prevent slipping from sweat. However, I don't know the extra costs for that, and it would depend on the gain in comparison to attaching some cigarette paper on a sweaty day.

[bassoonista]

My daughter has just finished her first year as a music student at Uni. She has the Muramatzu GX with open hole. She wants to be a music therapist, not a performer, so this was sufficient. However, when she chose it, she was a student on the gifted and talented course at Leeds College of Music, and they told her it was fine for a degree, but was not of performance standard.
I would say you need to up the expected cost to get a performance standard flute, but you may not have to pay the whole cost yourself. Firstly, if she attends state school (not Private school;) then the school can purchase the flute for you, and you reimburse them. This knocks off the VAT element of the cost. Then, apply for a bursary from EMI Sound Foundation. At the time we applied, the maximum they would give was 2,000.00, but that may have increased now. It's not means tested.
A good shop will let you take home several flutes, although not all at once, to try for a week, so she'll be able to play it for tutors and get an opinion from them. Also, try paying for a sample lesson from a university tutor, and ask for their opinion on the instrument before you commit.

[JPK]

Thank you to everyone so far for your replies.

I have spoken to her flute teacher as well for advice. It is very important my daughter tries all that she can so she can choose the sound she likes and wants.

I really appreciate all the feedback

Thank you.

My daughter has just finished her first year as a music student at Uni. She has the Muramatzu GX with open hole. She wants to be a music therapist, not a performer, so this was sufficient. However, when she chose it, she was a student on the gifted and talented course at Leeds College of Music, and they told her it was fine for a degree, but was not of performance standard.
I would say you need to up the expected cost to get a performance standard flute, but you may not have to pay the whole cost yourself. Firstly, if she attends state school (not Private school;) then the school can purchase the flute for you, and you reimburse them. This knocks off the VAT element of the cost. Then, apply for a bursary from EMI Sound Foundation. At the time we applied, the maximum they would give was 2,000.00, but that may have increased now. It's not means tested.
A good shop will let you take home several flutes, although not all at once, to try for a week, so she'll be able to play it for tutors and get an opinion from them. Also, try paying for a sample lesson from a university tutor, and ask for their opinion on the instrument before you commit.

Hi,

I found your reply very interesting. Which Uni is your daughter at?

We are planning on using the Arts Council "Take it away scheme" which lets you buy instruments up to ?5000 over 18 months so presume we couldn't probably apply for the EMI Sound foundation too but I will certainly look into it.

The assisted instrument purchase scheme I have looked into and even though she attends a state school she has private music lessons so she is not eligible to apply, although her teacher is from the local Music Service where my daughter plays in various bands and orchestras.

How has your daughter found the muramatsu gx? It looks very good.

I think at this stage we will be looking at the instrument seeing her through sixth form and college and then have to rethink at that stage depending on where she sees her musical career going. What I don't want to do is have to buy a new one for college in 2 years time at the end of sixth form. From what you have said it looks like we're looking at the right ones to get her through this next stage. I have been in touch with a couple of flute shops in London and we intend to go and spend a day there so she can really try out what is on offer.

At the moment she is talking about wanting to be a performer but also to teach say with a Music Service not as a music teacher in school. she also plays piccolo, alto sax and piano so we will be looking at a new sax too in a couple of years I expect!!

Thanks for your input. If your daughter has any advice or info she can pass on that would be great too.

Thanks
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[serendipity]

The assisted instrument purchase scheme I have looked into and even though she attends a state school she has private music lessons so she is not eligible to apply, although her teacher is from the local Music Service where my daughter plays in various bands and orchestras.

I think at this stage we will be looking at the instrument seeing her through sixth form and college and then have to rethink at that stage depending on where she sees her musical career going. What I don't want to do is have to buy a new one for college in 2 years time at the end of sixth form.

Does your daughter do GCSE music at school? If so, she should still qualify for assisted instrument purchase because it counts as having musical education or tuition at school. That is how two of my children got several of their instruments.

If your daughter really is considering being a performer, and applying to conservatoire, then I'm not sure your budget would be sufficient and you may well find yourself at the end of 6th form having to upgrade again. That's not to say it's impossible, there are stories of people getting to music college on student models, but it does make it very hard. We were in a similar position to you with flute, and daughter was told her flute was holding her back. We ended up upgrading a few months before conservatoire auditions simply because we couldn't scrape the money together before then. However, she now has a flute that will see her through conservatoire and hopefully into the beginnings of a professional career, then flute choices and budgets are up to her!

Like others have said, look at applying for whatever grants you have, these can also be used in conjunction with the assisted purchase scheme. See if any grants are specifically for your local area - we have found a much higher chance of getting this sort of grant. Also, if budget remains tight, consider second hand instruments, when we were looking we were impressed with some on offer, although of course it just depends what is available at the time you are looking.

[randomsabreur]

At that level, I think the main priority should be to get a good quality flute body, and possibly accept that headjoint taste might still end up changing. There are a lot more headjoint makers than flute makers, so that's certainly an option.

Open holes would be a good idea unless a teacher advises that your daughter's hands would be the wrong shape to cope. Inline/offset G would be more of a "try and see" what feels comfortable, and again more of a function of hand shape than anything else. Can't think of any disadvantages to split E, and as for lip plate materials - cut will be far more important than material - I think it's a case of the headjoint chooses you rather than you choosing the head joint!

Open or closed G# could be interesting - Clare Southworth plays open G# and is adament that it's better because the spring is lighter, and it's how the boehm system was designed.. Think it would drive me crazy to play that way, but apparently it's not too horrendous to change.

[bassoonista]

When I said the school bought the flute, it wasn't through any assisted purchase scheme, and we were not asked if she learned with the school music service, or privately. We simply went into school with the name of the shop, the bursar wrote out a cheque to the shop, and I wrote out a cheque to the school. Thus we actually paid for the flute, but the paperwork said it was bought by the school, and hence no VAT.

[Seer_Green]

I've got a Sankyo and I love it, but I realise it's not to everyone's taste! When I upgraded mine a couple of years I went to Just Flutes in Croydon. It really was a case of just trying all the ones at that level / in that price range and seeing what I liked. As you can imagine, it's a very personal thing! They were very good at suggesting ones I'd like - I'd had a Myazawa previously but found it a bit 'shrill' in the top register, so I wanted something with less of that and bit more 'beef' in the low register. In the end, I narrowed down to the Sankyo and an Altus.

I tried All Flutes Plus on Warren Street but didn't find them so helpful. They tended to just point at the ones that were suitable and say "Which do you want to try?" Just Flutes were much better are guiding me towards ones I might like.

[serendipity]

I tried All Flutes Plus on Warren Street but didn't find them so helpful. They tended to just point at the ones that were suitable and say "Which do you want to try?" Just Flutes were much better are guiding me towards ones I might like.

Funny how experiences vary, we have found All Flutes Plus the most helpful of all the flute shops we have been to. Incredibly patient and helpful, both when we were actually intending to buy and also when we made it clear we were only on initial fact-finds.

Someone a few posts up made a good point - perhaps it might be best to go for a really good body and think more about headjoints a little later down the line when it is clearer what your daughter is aiming to do.

As to actual make, it is all so personal so really the only thing to do is spend some time trying them out. When we had narrowed our choice down to two, we brought both home from All Flutes Plus for a week or so to put them through a normal week's worth of musical activity and to get her teacher's input.

[Seer_Green]

I tried All Flutes Plus on Warren Street but didn't find them so helpful. They tended to just point at the ones that were suitable and say "Which do you want to try?" Just Flutes were much better are guiding me towards ones I might like.

Funny how experiences vary, we have found All Flutes Plus the most helpful of all the flute shops we have been to. Incredibly patient and helpful, both when we were actually intending to buy and also when we made it clear we were only on initial fact-finds.

Absolutely; as I say that was my experience on that day. Another day may have been entirely different.

[Misti]

There have been many many threads on the topic of selecting an upgrade flute, which contains loads of good advice. Its well worth doing a search to dig some of these out, any many of the best informed forumites tend not to contribute to these discussions any more! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JPK]

There have been many many threads on the topic of selecting an upgrade flute, which contains loads of good advice. Its well worth doing a search to dig some of these out, any many of the best informed forumites tend not to contribute to these discussions any more! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hi,

I did try that and it came up with very little.

Will try again
Thanks
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[RoseRodent]

I wonder if it's worth speaking to the conservatoire admissions and/or head of wind and asking if it's best to make the upgrade before or after admission. Often the first thing a teacher does is pull the technique to bits and rebuild it from the ground up and you often find yourself with a very different set of priorities and preferences and realise you want a different type of instrument. I'm not sure how much that relates to a flute because I know it in the context of strings where players will often change posture which leads to changes in instrument size, shape, weight, shoulder rest, chin rest, strings, bow...

The teacher may find it a regular nightmare that students show up with an instrument they have just invested in both financially and emotionally and the the first thing the teacher needs to do is prise it off them because it's not suitable. She may be delighted that you asked rather than guess. The conservatoire may advise you to wait until the end of the first semester of teaching or may specify a minimum entry standard, but why not just ask? They may say spend ?2,000 now as a bridge instrument between a 311 and what they need and keep the rest in the bank towards a genuinely pro instrument. 15 is early days anyway, she may be very well set in her ideas today, she's got another 3 years to decide she actually wants to study ancient runes and arithmancy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The worst that could happen is they don't give you any guidance and then you are no further back than you started.