Music Appropriate For Lent, Preventing a faux pas. Options

[Barry Williams]

"We had the Gloria this morning. We weren't supposed to.."

The Gloria in sung or recited throughout Lent in the Book of Common Prayer, which remains the principal service book (in the eyes of the law if not the clergy) of the Church of England, for therein is to be found all the theology.

Barry Williams

[HelenVJ]

OK, slightly off topic, mea culpa, but this talk of exotic registrations is putting me in mind of the time we had a dep organist at one of our carol services, who decided a change of registration was probably called for at the beginning of the 'How silently' verse. His frantic attempts to get rid of what was clearly some kind of tuba stop provided a most enjoyable diversion for the choir.

[maggiemay]

HelenVJ, your story reminds me of a blooper on radio 3 choral evensong years ago - no idea where from - when during a very quiet setting of the nunc dimittis, the organist's little finger unintentionally bumped swell piston 6 (full with reeds) at the words 'Abraham and his seed' - ALMIGHTY BOOM.

[mel2]

Reeds or no reeds? Now I'm REALLY confused!

No matter. The phoned jangled me into wakefulness early yesterday with a message that I would be required to deputise at short notice i.e straight away. No time for a run through and 8 blooming verses in the first hymn - guaranteed for a disaster unless I get helpful signals from 1 of the 2 choir members when I lose count.

So the congregation got a very un-Lenten Stanford Prelude/Postlude in G afterwards, (complete with reeds) which went off rather well, I thought, and I now feel more confident about pulling it off in the exam.

No one has so far called to inform me that roof has fallen in, nor was fruit flung at me.
Maybe punishment will be extracted unto the nth generation but so far, so good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Plein Jeu]

"We had the Gloria this morning. We weren't supposed to.."

The Gloria in sung or recited throughout Lent in the Book of Common Prayer, which remains the principal service book (in the eyes of the law if not the clergy) of the Church of England, for therein is to be found all the theology.

Barry Williams

Really?

It's my understanding that the Gloria (sung or recited) is dropped in favour of the Kyrie during Lent and Advent.
Although I could be wrong.

[Holz Gedeckt]

"We had the Gloria this morning. We weren't supposed to.."

The Gloria in sung or recited throughout Lent in the Book of Common Prayer, which remains the principal service book (in the eyes of the law if not the clergy) of the Church of England, for therein is to be found all the theology.

Barry Williams

Really?

It's my understanding that the Gloria (sung or recited) is dropped in favour of the Kyrie during Lent and Advent.
Although I could be wrong.

I wonder if Barry is referring to the Gloria at the end of canticles and psalms as opposed to the Gloria in the mass, which you have in mind.

Pity about the no reeds in lent rule as Heinlein (40 days and 40 nights) sound so good with the oboes on the swell with the box shut. I suppose you can get away using a diapason chorus on the great for the major key sections of (St Andrew of Crete) but its so refreshing to bring the heavy artillary in for the last verse.

What is this rule about 'no reeds in Lent' please?

I cannot find this in the Church of England Canons. Also, those of the 'high church' persuasion accept that Sundays in Lent are excluded. Or am I missing something? Perhaps it is a local practice. Does it included Oboes and soft Horns as well as Trumpets?

Barry Williams

I'm aware that some organists follow the 'tradition' as opposed to the 'rule' of no reeds in Lent. I certainly use less reeds than I otherwise would.

Yes, indeed Sundays are excluded from the 40 days of Lent. But I think it's important that the music and the liturgy in Lent take on more of a reflective mood in preparation for the great festival of Easter.

[Plein Jeu]

I wonder if Barry is referring to the Gloria at the end of canticles and psalms as opposed to the Gloria in the mass, which you have in mind.

Sorry, I didn't realise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

I'm aware that some organists follow the 'tradition' as opposed to the 'rule' of no reeds in Lent. I certainly use less reeds than I otherwise would.

Yes, indeed Sundays are excluded from the 40 days of Lent. But I think it's important that the music and the liturgy in Lent take on more of a reflective mood in preparation for the great festival of Easter.

I totally agree.

There should be a great feeling of anticipation during Lent, especially musically. Come Easter Sunday and there's nothing more satisfying than letting rip on Thine be the glory and Christ the Lord Is Risen Today.

[Barry Williams]

"I wonder if Barry is referring to the Gloria at the end of canticles and psalms as opposed to the Gloria in the mass, which you have in mind."

The service of Holy Communion in the Book of Common Prayer has no provision for omitting the Gloria during Lent or Advent. I was not referring to Morning or Evening Prayer.

There is a nasty tradition creeping of omitting the Gloria from the end of the psalms when one of these is sung at Holy Communion. Again, there is no justification for this, save 'liturgical fashion' - which I deplore.

Barry Williams

[Holz Gedeckt]

There is a nasty tradition creeping of omitting the Gloria from the end of the psalms when one of these is sung at Holy Communion. Again, there is no justification for this, save 'liturgical fashion' - which I deplore.

I see where you're coming from, and sympathise, but things do move on. Wasn't the BCP representative of liturgical fashion in 1662?

[Barry Williams]

"Wasn't the BCP representative of liturgical fashion in 1662?"

Not really, for these was much less 'fashion' in liturgy in those days. It was the standard and norm, though it was never 'common speech' as Cranmer wrote in a deliberately 'high' style, owing much to Ciceronian Couplets and other common rhetorical devices of the period. (Rhetoric was taught at schools in those days.)

It is a pity that the Liturgical Commission has declined to use good modern English for the newer liturgies, preferring instead to use texts that are a pale imitation of Cranmer's strong prose style. They could not throw off the ghost of Cranmer! Since then it has only got worse.

However, 1662 is still the legal and theological norm, whatever some clergy may say. The Series I Wedding Service (which is the form invariably used for Royal Weddings) is still very popular. It is basically the 1662 service with the 'obey' removed and a certain purple passage neatly expunged. I would be very surprised if was ever discarded.

There are many quotes from the Book of Common Prayer in use in ordinary language - see the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations. The strength of Cranmer's language has ensured its longevity, though I am certain he would be horrified to find it had not been updated, for he was himself the ultimate reformer.

Barry Williams

[mel2]

The strength of Cranmer's language has ensured its longevity, though I am certain he would be horrified to find it had not been updated, for he was himself the ultimate reformer.

Barry Williams

That would indeed be a ticklish task for some brave body or other. I would forsee conflict, schism, tears.... business as usual, in fact.

[Barry Williams]

The strength of Cranmer's language has ensured its longevity, though I am certain he would be horrified to find it had not been updated, for he was himself the ultimate reformer.

Barry Williams

That would indeed be a ticklish task for some brave body or other. I would forsee conflict, schism, tears.... business as usual, in fact.

Yes, and it is not just liturgy. Church does seem to generate the greatest possible unhappiness. Perhaps this accounts for the large number of organists who prefer not to hold posts.

Barry Williams

[Holz Gedeckt]

Church does seem to generate the greatest possible unhappiness. Perhaps this accounts for the large number of organists who prefer not to hold posts.

There's a lot of truth in that. An elderly friend of mine and an organist of over 70 years standing frequently says, "If you want aggro, go to church".

I wonder why it should be so?

[Barry Williams]

Church does seem to generate the greatest possible unhappiness. Perhaps this accounts for the large number of organists who prefer not to hold posts.

There's a lot of truth in that. An elderly friend of mine and an organist of over 70 years standing frequently says, "If you want aggro, go to church".

I wonder why it should be so?

It is a common fallacy that there is a shortage of organists. There is not and indeed never has been in the past forty or so years. There is merely a shortage of organists willing to play for church services.

The two most common reasons, from my experience of advising folk, are the appalling 'music' that organists are expected to play and the aggro. The latter often arises from incompetent persons holding a church office or position trying to make decisions about matters they know little or nothing about.

Barry Williams

[maggiemay]

Reminds me slightly of a story you may have heard......

Organist is playing a few minutes before the service.

Church official approaches console, and wants a word about some point of order in the service.

Organist stops improvisation on a diminished seventh, turns round faintly horrified and replies,

"how would you like it if I did that to you during your sermon?'