Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[Arundodonuts]

I'm currently struggling a lot with LH Eb - my fingers just don't bend naturally! LH F is OK, but as soon as the little finger slides to the other banana key the rest of my fingers straighten out and slide right off the keys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Sounds to me that you are saying you slide from LH F to LH Eb. What's wrong with forked F to LH Eb?

[Isi]

I'm currently struggling a lot with LH Eb - my fingers just don't bend naturally! LH F is OK, but as soon as the little finger slides to the other banana key the rest of my fingers straighten out and slide right off the keys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Sounds to me that you are saying you slide from LF F to FL Eb. What's wrong with forked F to LH Eb?

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear! The problem is that I can't play left-hand Eb at all - no matter which note I come from! My little finger and ring finger just don't want to bend at the correct angle to allow me to reach all keys and cover the holes.

What I meant was, I can manage to play left-hand F, but not Eb. I have a similar problem with the fingers of my right hand when playing the flute - they want to be poker straight insteaf of lovely and curved (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Roseau]

Keri, can I ask how you were holding it previously and what the difference is now?

I was holding it like a descant recorder so my thumb was just underneath the thumb rest but wasn't actually touching it. The thumb is now pushing up against the thumb rest (this is how I have to think about it to stop myself from moving my thumb further down but I suppose a more accurate description would be that the oboe is now resting on my thumb due to the weight of gravity). It really has got rid of all pain and tension in my wrist (and has even made things like breathing easier).

As for your left little finger not being bent enough, you should try changing the angle of your left wrist by lifting your elbow up and out slightly more (this is fairly easy to demonstrate, but not easy to put into words) - your teacher ought to be able to help you with this.

For the right hand fingers, the height of the thumbrest plays a role. I have currently got my thumbrest a bit too low which means my fingers are not as curved as they should be. This is, however temporary - my teacher did it to make it harder for me to move my thumb further down the oboe - and I am going to gradually move it back up to where it was over the next couple of weeks. If yours is not adjustable and you want to try it higher you can take it off and put it back on upside down. If you want to try it lower (depending on your hand size you might find lower more comfortable) buy a plastic clarinet thumb cushion - put it on the right way round to make it a little lower and the wrong way round to make it quite a bit lower.

[Arundodonuts]

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear! The problem is that I can't play left-hand Eb at all - no matter which note I come from! My little finger and ring finger just don't want to bend at the correct angle to allow me to reach all keys and cover the holes.

So if you play just a LH Eb (without moving to it from another note), can you get your hand into the right position?

[A.U.K]

Hello everyone,

my apologies for my absence..I am sorry to say that there has been a lot going on with aging relations and a very seriously ill member of my immediate family.

I got a very nice email from Susan to check I was still in the land of the living which I am happy to report I am but life has overtaken time online..I am thankfully still able to play the Oboe and to be honest it has been something of a relief and an escape..

I will try to be here more regularly and add my thoughts and opinions (whether you want them or not.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

Thanks for the messages and Susan for her e-mail..

Andrew

[notmusimum]

Hello everyone,

my apologies for my absence..I am sorry to say that there has been a lot going on with aging relations and a very seriously ill member of my immediate family.

I got a very nice email from Susan to check I was still in the land of the living which I am happy to report I am but life has overtaken time online..I am thankfully still able to play the Oboe and to be honest it has been something of a relief and an escape..

I will try to be here more regularly and add my thoughts and opinions (whether you want them or not.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

Thanks for the messages and Susan for her e-mail..

Andrew

Just glad you are well Andrew! Sounds like you are not having an easy time of things. Look after yourself!

[Isi]

Thanks Keri. I think then that my thumb is using the thumb rest properly - maybe there is a height issue though. I was actually going to buy a thumb rest cushion the other day so I shall do that first and see if it helps, and get my teacher's view on it next week.

I have been playing around with my wrist angle to help out LH Eb but so far not much joy. It's my ring and middle finger that seem to be the issue though. My little finger can get to the banana key but the other two imediately straighten out and stop covering the hole. A bit tricky to explain properly!

My teacher has said we can out it on the back-burner for now and that by playing left-hand F more frequently (I tend to use forked most of the time at the moment) my fingers might get used to the positioning and get better at Eb.

Pushpul: No, I can't get a noise out at all, even if I try and play it on its own..!

Anyway, despite this, which is mildly annoying, I am loving my oboe-ing and wish I had made the plunge years ago! I played my first piece with the piano last night which was great, although it definitely highlights all the issues with tone and intonation!

AUK: Glad to see you back and sorry to hear things have been difficult for you. I do hope they improve soon. I have been employing your 'yawn' technique that you advised me on a while back and it's made a huge difference so thank you very much. I just need to remember to keep doing it all the time and not just when I start a piece!

[Arundodonuts]

What are you referring to as the "banana key" Isi? It's actually the curved key around the RH 3rd finger C key which doesn't have anything to do with Eb. I'm guessing you are taking about the LH Eb or F key.

I think kerioboe has got something in referring to you elbows. If you drop your elbows in towards your body (a common mistake) your fingers are pulled away from the centre line of the oboe which will make accurate finger placement on the keys difficult.

Another thing. Do you have an open hole or covered hole oboe?

As for the shape of your fingers when playing, have a look at this bloke who knows a thing or two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh96omI0bYE

The videos of the Metamorphoses give a good indication of finger shape. 3 and 4 on the left hand tend to remain pretty straight even with 1 and 2 curved.

[Roseau]

I had a very pleasant couple of hours this afternoon playing chamber music with a violinist and a cellist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We met for the first time last week and were all a bit afraid of making mistakes. This week it was much more relaxed and time just flew by. We intend to meet every week and since it's not linked to the music school, it won't stop during the holidays (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[katica]

It's nice to see that the happy band of "windswept and interesting" oboists has swelled again. Welcome back itchy1, and Isi who seems to have been busy off the Forum for a little while. And especially to Andrew - it's a relief to know you're OK, if not in happy circumstances ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thereThere.gif) ), especially after the awfully sad news about clavicembalo.

I've been off the Forum, too, for a few days. Apologies for not answering questions and comments from folks, especially kerioboe. I'm afraid I'm only going to be a bit sporadically here over the next couple of months because I have a lot of trips coming up (work and family) and probably won't be able to connect that much...

On the Marigaux I fitted a clarinet adjustable thumbrest. I bought this online following a link that Skylark posted. (I'll have a look for it later and add an edit to this post if I find it). The clarinet thumb rest had 3 screws and my oboe only two but the two the oboe had were in the right place so I just screwed it on myself with 2 screws and it worked.

I read somewhere that if you want to experiment with height before buying something else, you can unscrew the one that is on there and screw it back on upside down. This doesn't give you a comfortable thumb rest but gives you some idea of whether the hand position is more comfortable.

I am going to try this experiment too... there is definitely something not quite right/comfortable about my thumb position and I need to try out different solutions. In an oboe text I recently read, the author suggests that thumbrests are almost invariably uncomfortably placed and that the natural position for the thumb is higher up behind the first finger. When I first concluded this for myself, my teacher said quite the contrary, that he had found moving the thumbrest further down improved finger positions. When I got the XL I tried this and I think he maybe right but I do find the weight rather uncomfortable, even though it's lighter than my old Patricola.

I looked at an adjustable thumbrest in Howarths but I wasn't quite convinced and didn't get it in the end. What do you do about the oboe case with an adjustable thumbrest? I presume you'd need to have it adapted so the oboe would still fit in the case properly.

At my lesson this week (which was, like last week's, very productive and more satisfying than the last couple of months...) we discovered a new problem which must be related to the wrist/thumb positions and tension issues we have been discussing. It turns out that I have been twisting the oboe. At first we thought it was because I had the reed twisted but it seems quite likely that it is the other way round. A bad wrist position and/or tension in the hand is causing me to twist the oboe and in turn the reed, which is being more or less held in position by the embouchure (whoops, that must mean I'm still biting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) ). As soon as I managed to sustain the right position better I did notice that the sound seemed to improve and the LH E flat was a bit less of a problem. Not quite as stunning results as kerioboe's thumb miracle but at least a step in the right direction.

However, I am still having some LH issues and they sound very like yours, Isi. Except that I have more of a problem with the LH F than the LH E flat. The difficulty with the LH F is in part simply because the key is smaller and further away on the XL than it was on the Patricola and I just have to get used to it and discipline myself not always to resort to the forked F. The rest of the problem seems to be finger shape. The Patricola had covered holes so it was really easy to get away with not having an exactly placed fingers. The guilty fingers are the same as yours, Isi, the middle and ring fingers of the left hand, with the latter being too flat. To check if it's the same try this: play third octave E using the position that requires you use LH E flat and G sharp at the same time. Go up to F (i.e. lift the LH ring finger). Now go back down to E. If you have the same problem of me it will hard getting that ring finger back on the G key.

My problem was worse at first because of a doublejointed ring finger. I found some finger strengthening exercises to help with that but the flat finger issue still remains. My teacher's sometimes looks flatter than the curved shape he insists I use a (a bit like ND in the video pushpull recommended) but the difference is that his is more relaxed and naturally and easily moves back to a curved position and in no way obstructs the movement of the LH little finger. Or vice versa.

Your teacher may be right, Isi, about not having to solve the problem right away but I'd advise you to give it a go. My teacher warned me quite a while back that if I didn't deal with my bad wrist/finger positions I would have serious problems later on. He was right. Since the Patricola didn't force to me to correct them I never really did and I am suffering now with the Howarth XL with its small holes. It's much harder to change the bad habits of two years!

I am making progress with the ring finger but that in itself is causing problems with the LH E flat. The middle finger has got so used to the bad relationship with the tense little finger and flat ring finger that now I am correcting them, it just doesn't want to cover the middle hole properly. When the LH E flat doesn't sound properly, which is usually in the middle rather than low register, it is nearly always because the middle finger (A) hole is slightly uncovered.

But somehow behind all of this I think there is a deeper cause that is the wrist and tension problem, which has also resulted in this twisting thing. All and any tips for helping to cure this (elbow idea duly noted) very gratefully received!

I need to get those Gillet exercises (not very affordable right now, though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ). Sounds as though they will be a very good test of progress towards a solution.

Lots of really useful practice tips. I hope they work.

Are there any you can share?

I'm supposed to have the first part of the Vivaldi concerto I am studying committed to memory for next week.

Which one are you playing? (ie what key)

I've gone on so long today ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) sorry!), I think I will have to hang off on the tips. I think quite a few may be similar to Schuring suggestions but applied rather specifically to the Vivaldi piece (C major - Op.8 No.12 /RV 449) . When I find the time I'd like to scan a bit of the first page so you will be able to see what I mean. For now, here's Paolo Grazzi playing it: Vivaldi RV449. In my edition the oboe doesn't play the intro and the solo starts at 0.51. I'm studying up to about 2.03 at the moment, rather slower. NOT memorised yet but the attempt has greatly helped!

I had a very pleasant couple of hours this afternoon playing chamber music with a violinist and a cellist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Oboe and cello - heavenly!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[Stephie]

I ordered two reeds from Howarth on Wednesday night at 23:00, got an e-mail on Thursday morning to say they'd been despatched and then I received them this morning. Compare that to the entire MONTH that I waited on reeds from Fortay! I think I know where I'll be purchasing my reeds from now on... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The two that I ordered were a Wiggins professional reed and a Ke-Xun Ge professional reed to try. My new teacher recommended these, so I guess we'll see! She's also going to give me reed-making lessons, so I'll hopefully improve in that department.

[Arundodonuts]

I ordered two reeds from Howarth on Wednesday night at 23:00, got an e-mail on Thursday morning to say they'd been despatched and then I received them this morning. Compare that to the entire MONTH that I waited on reeds from Fortay! I think I know where I'll be purchasing my reeds from now on... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

The two that I ordered were a Wiggins professional reed and a Ke-Xun Ge professional reed to try. My new teacher recommended these, so I guess we'll see! She's also going to give me reed-making lessons, so I'll hopefully improve in that department.

I'll be interested to hear how they compare. I've been using Fortay for quite some time now and whilst I agree they take their time delivering, I will forgive them that for making such nice reeds.

[Roseau]

I looked at an adjustable thumbrest in Howarths but I wasn't quite convinced and didn't get it in the end. What do you do about the oboe case with an adjustable thumbrest? I presume you'd need to have it adapted so the oboe would still fit in the case properly.

Are you sure the thumbrest on your XL isn't adjustable? Mine came with an adjustable thumbrest so I don't see why yours wouldn't have. You do need a screwdriver to adjust it (and mine came with a screw-driver in the case) - you just loosen the screw at the back, slide the rest up or down and then tighten it.

As for the height, it does depend on hand size, I have fairly small hands and counter-intuitively (now that I am holding it properly) find it easier to curve my fingers and reach all the keys with the thumbrest in a slightly higher position than how it was when it came.

And for the case, since the XL came with the thumbrest it fits, with the Marigaux, I cut a tiny piece (about 2mm) out of the case so that the adjustable thumb-rest would fit.

However, I am still having some LH issues and they sound very like yours, Isi. Except that I have more of a problem with the LH F than the LH E flat. The difficulty with the LH F is in part simply because the key is smaller and further away on the XL than it was on the Patricola.

My Marigaux had holes in the keys like the XL but it didn't have a left-hand F and the LH E flat is in a different position on the XL which took me some time to get used to. My teacher pointed out that on the XL the gap between the G# key and the Eb key is quite big - bigger than on his Buffet Greenline which does make it slightly harder. Apparently it is possible (but not particularly cheap) to have the key lengthened - I decided I would just get used to it.

My teacher's sometimes looks flatter than the curved shape he insists I use a (a bit like ND in the video pushpull recommended) but the difference is that his is more relaxed and naturally and easily moves back to a curved position and in no way obstructs the movement of the LH little finger. Or vice versa.

I also made the same observation about my teacher and have found that consciously thinking about the ring finger position has helped. I did lots of alternating 3rd octave E/F concentrating on my ring finger position. And do experiment with your wrist position. Imagine you are lengthening your hand from the base and the wrist bones, rather than simply thinking of stretching your little finger.

If you have access to a piano play five consecutive notes (one for each finger) with a rounded hand and curved fingers and then while holding the other four fingers notes down, play the ring finger note repeatedly. I suppose you could just do this on a table but if you have a piano, the sound you hear helps you know if you are doing it properly.

Ring fingers are lacking something vital (a ligament I think) to move by themselves, which means they need the middle fingers help to do anything (and not the little finger as we tend to assume. If you want to prove it to yourself, put your hand palm down on the table and tuck your middle finger under the palm of your hand. Now try and lift your other fingers individually. You will find you can move them all except the ring finger. If you do the same thing tucking your little finger under instead of your middle finger you will be able to move the ring finger a little (although not as much as the others).

I need to get those Gillet exercises (not very affordable right now, though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ). Sounds as though they will be a very good test of progress towards a solution.

Gillet is ridiculously expensive. And you really could write them out for yourself. For the left F play repeated groups of D,F,E,F, then Db,F,E,F and then Eb,F,E,F (do this in the 1st and 2nd octave).

I'll post left-hand Eb tomorrow because it's a bit more complicated and I need to check in the book.

The two that I ordered were a Wiggins professional reed and a Ke-Xun Ge professional reed to try. My new teacher recommended these, so I guess we'll see! She's also going to give me reed-making lessons, so I'll hopefully improve in that department.

I used to like Fortay but have "grown out of" them. I become fond of Ke-Xun Ge reeds last year and have just discovered Wiggins. Both offer more resistance than the Fortay reeds and (for me anyway) have a fuller tone and a greater dynamic chage.

The Ke-Xun Ge reeds are the first reeds I have had that have actually needed to be blown in - they change quite considerably as you play on them. The "easy" reed I use for long orchestra rehearsals is a Ke-Xun Ge which is a couple of months old. They don't go sharp as they get older (which is what I found with Fortay reeds).

I haven't had the Wiggins for long enough to really judge - it didn't need blowing in and hasn't changed noticeably since I've had it (I've been rotating it with a couple of other reeds for the past month).

I would be wary of just judging on one reed though. I came across Wiggins reeds when I had my cor serviced over the summer and the repairer suggested I try a Wiggins reed. The first one I tried I didn't like at all but he suggested I tried another which I did like. In the end I tried about 10 Wiggins cor reeds and picked the three I liked best. Unfortunately I didn't have my oboe with me so I just bought one oboe reed without trying it. Similarly, over the space of a year I have bought five Ke-Xun Ge reeds and one of them has never played satisfactorily. If this was the first one I had had, I would never have bought another.

[Stephie]

I'll be interested to hear how they compare. I've been using Fortay for quite some time now and whilst I agree they take their time delivering, I will forgive them that for making such nice reeds.

I'll definitely post on here and let you know once I've played them enough to know! Fortay's reeds are quite nice and if that's what you want to use then you might want to try ordering the Fortay reeds directly from Howarth? They do sell them, I believe! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I used to like Fortay but have "grown out of" them. I become fond of Ke-Xun Ge reeds last year and have just discovered Wiggins. Both offer more resistance than the Fortay reeds and (for me anyway) have a fuller tone and a greater dynamic chage.

Yes, that's what my teacher was saying. She says a lot of people tend to use Fortay as a sort of transition reed, but that the Ke-Xun Ge and Wiggins are more appropriate when you get to a higher level.

I would be wary of just judging on one reed though. I came across Wiggins reeds when I had my cor serviced over the summer and the repairer suggested I try a Wiggins reed. The first one I tried I didn't like at all but he suggested I tried another which I did like. In the end I tried about 10 Wiggins cor reeds and picked the three I liked best.

How did you try them all? Was this at a playday stall or something?

[katica]

Are you sure the thumbrest on your XL isn't adjustable? Mine came with an adjustable thumbrest so I don't see why yours wouldn't have. You do need a screwdriver to adjust it (and mine came with a screw-driver in the case) - you just loosen the screw at the back, slide the rest up or down and then tighten it.

Yes it does have an adjustable thumbrest. I obviously misunderstood and thought your clari attachment might have been something more along the lines of the even more flexible Kooiman thumbrest that Howarth sells: http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./w...g&pid=34951 **
With that fixed to the oboe, it definitely wouldn't fit in the case.

Thank you so much for all the explanations and suggestions!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I will definitely be trying these out over the next week. I won't have a class because I'll be travelling but I fully intend to take the oboe with me... we'll see if I'm doing better by my next lesson. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've also decided that's just better to get used to the new key positions and sizes. Actually, I think I already like the slightly bigger distance between the G# key and the Eb key better on the XL than on the Patricola.

Having said that, I am wondering about asking Howarth to lift/angle very slightly the half hole pad - not sure what it's called in English but that little extension below the B (1st LH) key. There's probably a good reason why it's flatter on the XL - maybe angled ones are really designed to help students - but I think I would prefer to feel my finger rolling on to it a bit more.

Absolutely zero progress on the reedmaking front. No time! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

** PS I tried to include an image here, following the instructions that Car Expert gives in the FAQ thread but I can't get it to work. Does anyone know how to post images/photos?