Learn A Piece "back To Front"?, Ever tried it? Options

[Storini]

On another board, some time ago, a poster suggested learning a new piece from the end backwards to the beginning - a bar or phrase at a time. I don't fully recollect the reasoning put forward, unfortunately; possibly they claimed it gave a better understanding of the shape of the piece than the usual way.

Anyone tried this?

[1stviolin]

On another board, some time ago, a poster suggested learning a new piece from the end backwards to the beginning - a bar or phrase at a time. I don't fully recollect the reasoning put forward, unfortunately; possibly they claimed it gave a better understanding of the shape of the piece than the usual way.

Anyone tried this?

There's certainly a case for practising from the end, as invariably the first section ends up better known and more fluent....

I suppose you would get a sense of how the piece leads to the end, although in many pieces isn't the climax supposed to be a little way before the end, in the "golden ratio" to the length of the piece. Think of the Bach 1st prelude in C maj...

[PlinkPlonkMan]

:D Hello
Yes...My Teacher often ask me to start at the last bar and work backwards...I think it's to help my sight reading partly but most of all so that if I crash during the piece I can pick it up from anywhere. I don't do this as much as I should...
BFN Mike :D

[chopet]

I only remember trying that once, on one of my grade 4 exam pieces years ago. Of course this particular piece was practically all scales......

[Helen]

The conductor in one of my old bands used to tell us to start at the end. He gave us the reasoning that if you started at the beginning and got stuck half way through, you would go back to the beginning and start again. This happens over and over again, therefore the beginning gets practiced a lot, but the end doesn't; whereas practicing backwards means that the end gets practiced too.

:lol:

[oboist]

Whilst I don't necessarily go backwards bar by bar with my students, I certainly do insist that they work on different bits of a piece week by week, not always starting from the beginning, even in the first week of study. That way each bit gets properly studied and, in the event of a mishap on exam day, they do usually have the confidence to pick the piece up at any point and not insist on going back to the beginning again.

[andante_in_c]

I use this quite a lot, both for my own playing and for my students. I've also used it for learning recorder scales: start with the last note, then add the notes before until the whole scale is built up.

I originally saw it (I think from the PracticeSpot website) as a suggestion for how to memorise a piece, but it works just as well for note learning. I found it particularly effective for sight reading exercises when I was working towards my recorder exam last term. There's something particularly reassuring about knowing where you're going to end up.

I would, in most cases, sight read a new piece through from the beginning a couple of times before I began to work on the last few bars, though. The only exception I would make is for sight reading under exam conditions where there just isn't time. And under these conditions I would make jolly sure I knew how the piece started as well. :)

[janexxx]

Whilst I don't necessarily go backwards bar by bar with my students, I certainly do insist that they work on different bits of a piece week by week, not always starting from the beginning, even in the first week of study. That way each bit gets properly studied and, in the event of a mishap on exam day, they do usually have the confidence to pick the piece up at any point and not insist on going back to the beginning again.

Yes I do this and my teacher advocates that I do it. Sometimes start in the middle, sometimes just practise a few bars at a time, sometimes practise the parts where there is a transition from one phrase / theme to another.

You really need to be able to pick up a piece at any point and carrry on

[Violinia]

Hmm. Starting a scale at the top instead of the bottom - yes. But actually starting at the end and working backwards? Is learning music this way really going to lead to a musical performance - or a technically proficient but quite possibly unmusical one? It sounds a bit like a recording session - splicing bits together...

Why not expend the energy on learning the piece by heart, so that if you get lost, no problem? A lot more chance of playing it musically too when you're not glued to the book. I promise you.

Violinia

[andante_in_c]

No, learning a piece like this doesn't lead to a musical performance. Learning a piece like this means that the notes are learned, so the effort can be put into the musical performance, not the note-reading.

Whether the piece is played from a score, or from memory, the notes have to be learned. This method, I find, cuts the time it takes to be familiar with the notes.

[Fred]

I think it was Apassionata who suggested it here before? The idea being that rather than repeatedly playing the beginning, and therefore knowing that part better, you would repeatedly play the end. This makes practising more satisfying (because you stop at the end, not part-way through) and also means the end is really thoroughly learned so you can give a truly rousing finish when performing. Also, as you learn each section you already know where you are going and how the next part will follow on, which will probably affect your initial interpretation.

[katyjay]

I do use this technique from time to time, mainly if I'm having trouble getting the "scaffolding" of a new song right. But I tend to do it in phrases rather than bars or single notes.

For the "paint job", that is working on the communication of the song, I work from the beginning, looking at where the key points to highlight are in each phrase.

I do find that knowing what's going to come next can help, particularly if I'm approaching a tricky section. I feel more confident knowing that I can cope with the next phrase after that.

Cheers

Katyjay

[Digby]

I did try it with a Brahms Intermezzo, and yes all the theories about not stopping and going back to the beginning did work, I do play the piece very well (big headed though that may be!)

However - I honestly did not enjoy learning it which is very unusual for me. So whilst it worked - I won't do it again. ;)

[sarah-flute]

For me it's one of the tools in learning to play a piece, and there are many others. Like Andante, I use it as a way to learn the notes so that they are secure, then I can concentrate on the musicality... another example is a jazz study I am learning and trying to get the notes completely secure... I am revising line by line, and obviously the phrases don't begin and end at the line breaks! However it is ensuring I can transition between the different phrases, as the phrases have had plenty of practice at phrases. It's not a way of mastering the piece as a whole, but it's a good way of absolutely getting the notes secure, and once the notes are absolutely secure, and I can literally start from anywhere in the piece be it in the middle of a phrase or whatever, then 100% of my attention can be focused on playing it well.

[Violinia]

OK OK I stand corrected! I just didn't like the idea of practising bar by bar backwards - seems a bit over-technical to me, and the result could be a somewhat wooden performance; after all, the way you practise something does have a bearing on how it's going to turn out. Like - too much purely mechanical scales practice can result in scale passages in music sounding like just that - scales - rather than music.

Another thing - you can practise almost as effectively purely mentally (by going over the music in your head), so why run the risk of killing the music by over-dissecting the piece?

You're all spot on about practising the end parts more, to override the dangers of over-practising the beginning and under-rehearsing the end. But practise it phrase by phrase, not bar by bar backwards otherwise you may not be able to get out of playing it woodenly.

Just a view. :rolleyes:

Violinia