What Is An Adult Learner? Options

[sarah-flute]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Maizie touched on something that has occurred to me as I sit here. For me one of the things about adult learner vs not is also about where you're at. If I had got to grade 8 as a child and then taken it up again, then maybe I would be less likely to say "Oh yes, I'm an adult learner on the flute"... but I guess it's partly that I am an adult who is reasonably competent but not yet at a stage people might expect from someone who's been playing the flute since they were a child. Does that make any sense? Not having lessons till later in life (even though I played) and having had relatively few lessons, I still feel I'm very much on the learner side of things.

Not sure if that makes sense, but yeah, I identify with what Maizie has written.

[Deborah]

No idea where I fit into this!

I don't consider myself an adult learner on clarinet, but the day I stop learning is the day I die.

I do consider myself an adult learner on piano: I started lessons at 13, got to Grade VII whilst at university, didn't have a piano lesson between graduating and January this year, i.e. a 13 year gap, although I played it during my sabbatical.

Anyway, I must be an adult learner on piano because katyjay's already told me I'm playing piano at the Adult Learners' concert next spring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[sbhoa]

For me one of the things about adult learner vs not is also about where you're at. If I had got to grade 8 as a child and then taken it up again, then maybe I would be less likely to say "Oh yes, I'm an adult learner on the flute"... but I guess it's partly that I am an adult who is reasonably competent but not yet at a stage people might expect from someone who's been playing the flute since they were a child. Does that make any sense? Not having lessons till later in life (even though I played) and having had relatively few lessons, I still feel I'm very much on the learner side of things.

Not sure if that makes sense, but yeah, I identify with what Maizie has written.

I'm with you on that one Sarah.
I still consider myself as Adult Learner on piano, partly that I was an adult when I took grade 3 and partly that I feel that even though I passed grade 8 last year I'm still only playing at grade level rather than dip. level.
In lessons I'm taking time building up technique and confidence mostly playing things that people would put at a lower grade than 8. And I don't find them too easy either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[monkey flute]

hi without any doubt i am an adult learner having started flute in june 2006 first lessons and not being able to read a note or get a sound from the mouth piece when buying my sparkly new flute (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

now 20 months on i have a house full of instruments, band members and music books on every surface and play around grade 4

it is without any doubt the best thing i have ever done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/party1.gif)

[Robodoc]

I don't think there is anything set in stone about this, but I usually term 'adult learners' to be those who have started to learn after they are 18. Somehow, I would find it hard teaching people for years, who, at 18 suddenly become an 'adult learner' although I guess this is their 'official' title.

David

Sounds reasonable, but . . . I started playing piano at about 4, started lessons at 7 and gave up at 13. I then didn't have any lessons for 34 years. I REstarted learning after the age of 18. I think that makes me an adult learner too. I hope so anyway, though I have occasional doubts.

[sarah-flute]

I don't think there is anything set in stone about this, but I usually term 'adult learners' to be those who have started to learn after they are 18. Somehow, I would find it hard teaching people for years, who, at 18 suddenly become an 'adult learner' although I guess this is their 'official' title.

Sounds reasonable, but . . . I started playing piano at about 4, started lessons at 7 and gave up at 13. I then didn't have any lessons for 34 years. I REstarted learning after the age of 18. I think that makes me an adult learner too. I hope so anyway, though I have occasional doubts.

I agree, Rob. That's why I consider myself more or less an adult learner on piano and flute. I'm not sure what difference it would make if one suddenly became an adult learner at 18 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) one is still the same person!

[littlelady87]

Well, I am definitely an adult learner anyway.
I started piano when I was 18 and violin when I was 19...

[anacrusis]

I'm with you on that one Sarah.
I still consider myself as Adult Learner on piano, partly that I was an adult when I took grade 3 and partly that I feel that even though I passed grade 8 last year I'm still only playing at grade level rather than dip. level.
In lessons I'm taking time building up technique and confidence mostly playing things that people would put at a lower grade than 8. And I don't find them too easy either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Does that mean, though, that you think that those who have got beyond grade level, even if they achieved that as adults, stop becoming adult learners? Because that seemed to be precisely the prejudice against which I came this summer - people could see I was ancient compared with the teenagers playing, and appeared to have come to the conclusion that I had no business competing with them; it was assumed I must be very experienced because I could play reasonably well, but that the kids were exceptional for playing well - yet it is entirely possible that they will have had more public performance experience than I have, and as many years' tuition too.

Disheartening as it can be to have people assume you ought to be able to play well just because of being older - the one group of people which does seem to acknowledge the extra effort and guts it takes to perform as a learning adult is the examiners - the three I've played my recorders to were all very pleasant and did their best to be reassuring.

[sbhoa]

I'm with you on that one Sarah.
I still consider myself as Adult Learner on piano, partly that I was an adult when I took grade 3 and partly that I feel that even though I passed grade 8 last year I'm still only playing at grade level rather than dip. level.
In lessons I'm taking time building up technique and confidence mostly playing things that people would put at a lower grade than 8. And I don't find them too easy either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Does that mean, though, that you think that those who have got beyond grade level, even if they achieved that as adults, stop becoming adult learners? Because that seemed to be precisely the prejudice against which I came this summer - people could see I was ancient compared with the teenagers playing, and appeared to have come to the conclusion that I had no business competing with them; it was assumed I must be very experienced because I could play reasonably well, but that the kids were exceptional for playing well - yet it is entirely possible that they will have had more public performance experience than I have, and as many years' tuition too.

Disheartening as it can be to have people assume you ought to be able to play well just because of being older - the one group of people which does seem to acknowledge the extra effort and guts it takes to perform as a learning adult is the examiners - the three I've played my recorders to were all very pleasant and did their best to be reassuring.

I understand what you mean and I think that the line is a bit fuzzy but I rather lean towards the feeling that someone at Dip. level is by definition a reasonably confident and accomplished performer. Isn't that what is required in a diploma exam even at the first level?
I do realise it's not a one size fits all thing though and so far with Adult Learner concerts it's been pretty much left to individuals to define themselves rather that putting a set of rules in place which could never really cover all eventualities. Having said that Adult Learner Concert publicity does emphasize (not too heavily) that beginner and intermediate level players are expecially welcome as these (usually) the ones who are more reluctant to playing in front of people and the AL concerts aim to be a safe environment for those people.

[anacrusis]

My reason for labouring this point is that five years ago I'd have been terrified of playing in front of an audience of any sort - I'm still not entirely sure what gave me the courage to play to my teacher for the first time. I've played in five concerts, one workshop, and done three exams and then the festival this summer.....and that's it. Compared with the teenaged kid who has been having lessons for the same number of years, done a grade a year, played in school concerts every year and done music festivals every year - I'm a novice.
It's one of the real difficulties adult learners have - we tend to find ourselves learning in isolation (mind you, I guess that is a problem for pianists of all ages), with few opportunities to share our music either with friends or an audience (better still a friendly audience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ). That applies just as much to those of us who are relatively advanced as those who are setting out, because kids are thrown together in organisations where orchestras and bands are commonly part of their lives - there's no surgery band at my place of work, for instance. It's embarrassing, hunting for people to play with, and much harder to free up time when other adults can come for a bit of a busk. And I still find the idea of just setting up a concert and touting for an audience really daunting - why would anyone come, it's only an adult learner, not Marion Verbruggen.....?

[Dulciana]

My reason for labouring this point is that five years ago I'd have been terrified of playing in front of an audience of any sort - I'm still not entirely sure what gave me the courage to play to my teacher for the first time. I've played in five concerts, one workshop, and done three exams and then the festival this summer.....and that's it. Compared with the teenaged kid who has been having lessons for the same number of years, done a grade a year, played in school concerts every year and done music festivals every year - I'm a novice.
It's one of the real difficulties adult learners have - we tend to find ourselves learning in isolation (mind you, I guess that is a problem for pianists of all ages), with few opportunities to share our music either with friends or an audience (better still a friendly audience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ). That applies just as much to those of us who are relatively advanced as those who are setting out, because kids are thrown together in organisations where orchestras and bands are commonly part of their lives - there's no surgery band at my place of work, for instance. It's embarrassing, hunting for people to play with, and much harder to free up time when other adults can come for a bit of a busk. And I still find the idea of just setting up a concert and touting for an audience really daunting - why would anyone come, it's only an adult learner, not Marion Verbruggen.....?

I know what you mean! I'd sort of consider myself an adult learner on piano (definitely with the organ) because I went back to playing after a gap of about 20 years, picked up where I left off and moved on - and would like to keep moving on. As a teacher now, pupil concerts are a good outlet for performing and accompanying, and I've been asked to do other things as a result of that. Also, some of the adult and teenage pupils have organised events of their own, which have been good fun. Unless we're wizz-kids who win the top prizes at big festivals, though, serious performance opportunities for adults are limited. The best plan is just to make supper and invite your musical friends of all ages to come and play and listen - and hopefully the invitation will be returned in the future!

[sarah-flute]

Does that mean, though, that you think that those who have got beyond grade level, even if they achieved that as adults, stop becoming adult learners?

No, IMO... but others may disagree!

I think it's a fuzzy definition, but certainly IMO if you started as an adult, you're an adult learner.

Whether I'd still consider myself an adult learner on flute if I were as good as you are at the recorder, I don't know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[splodge]

I think you're an adult learner when you pay for your own lessons, have to motivate yourself and don't have the benefit of your Dad standing over you with a big stick saying, 'You will practise!'.

[sarah-flute]

I think you're an adult learner when you pay for your own lessons, have to motivate yourself and don't have the benefit of your Dad standing over you with a big stick saying, 'You will practise!'.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)

[sbhoa]

Does that mean, though, that you think that those who have got beyond grade level, even if they achieved that as adults, stop becoming adult learners?

I think it's a fuzzy definition, but certainly IMO if you started as an adult, you're an adult learner.

Then there are those who started as youngsters (maybe as teens or even younger) and who have continued more or less to have lessons but as adults are still well down the grades as far as level goes.
There are far to many exceptions to try to define it.
Maybe in some ways it's a attitude of mind?
There could be dip level players who think (or know?) that they are very competent players and who would feel quite comfortable in being asked to play in public and/or who would feel that a small friendly gathering wasn't really of interest to them as performers. Others at the same level feel that a short performing spot at such an event is really worthwhile and of benefit to them.

The thought of Anacrusis (and others) on this are quite thought provoking and I'm getting a new slant on diplomas. This may be simplistic (Send out a lynch mob if I'm out of order) but it seems to me that for some at least the way they feel on passing their diploma is a little(maybe a very little) like my thought at grade 5 and then grade 8....... before both of those exam I sort of had tihs idea that reaching that level would somehow mean that I was actually getting reasonable competent but when I got there I found that things hadn't changed and I was still wary of being found out as really not very good.

Then again I could be talking a complete load of nonsense.