Concertos And Sonatas, What are the differences? Options

[purple dolphin]

Apart from the differences in instruments between concertos and sonatas, are there any other major differences? At the moment I'm composing a piece for clarinet and piano which is intended to be a cut down version of a concerto (like you can get the Mozart concerto but arranged for clarinet and piano), but even if I added orchestral parts, would it still be a sonata or would it be a concerto? I'm intending it to have three movements by the end of it; I've finished the second movement already (did it for my GCSE composition) and I'm now in the beginning stages of the 1st movment. If I added orchestral parts, would it then be a concerto or not?

[ben_walker446]

I always thought a concerto was for a solo instrument and orchestra and a sonata was just a solo instrument (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[purple dolphin]

I always thought a concerto was for a solo instrument and orchestra and a sonata was just a solo instrument (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I'm just asking because I thought that a concerto was for solo instrument with orchestra, and a sonata was solo instrument with piano, but one of my friends says otherwise, and I'd like to know if there are any other differences.

[sonataform]

I always thought a concerto was for a solo instrument and orchestra and a sonata was just a solo instrument (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I'm just asking because I thought that a concerto was for solo instrument with orchestra, and a sonata was solo instrument with piano, but one of my friends says otherwise, and I'd like to know if there are any other differences.

Conventionally, what you've said is right (with the addition that a piano sonata is just for piano). What does your friend say? Each would have three movements, and the first movement of a sonata would be in sonata form, and the first movement of a concerto would have a cadenza for the solo instrument, and generally speaking the tempo of the movements would be fast-slow-fast.

However, there are so many exceptions it's difficult to know where to start. The Berg Piano Sonata op.1 has a single movement. Bartok and Peter Maxwell Davies (among many others - these are just the first two that came to mind) wrote concertos for orchestra where there is no solo instrument - and the Bartok has five movements rather than the more usual three.

If you wrote your piece for clarinet and piano you could reasonably describe it as a sonata. If you wrote it for clarinet and orchestra you could say it was a concerto. "Adding orchestral parts" to a piece for clarinet and piano is a trickier concept because you'd end up with something that was neither one thing nor the other (perhaps aiming in the direction of a Double Concerto for Clarinet and Piano).

Of course you could always dodge the question by calling it something else entirely! I wrote a (four-movement) piece for clarinet and piano based on a novel, and used the name of the novel for the name of the piece. After the first performance someone pointed out that I could have called it a clarinet sonata, and I suppose I could, but the relationship to the novel was too strong and I kept the name as it was.

[Kimble]

Wow, basing a piece on a novel, that sounds like a lovely idea. What was the novel?

[sonataform]

Wow, basing a piece on a novel, that sounds like a lovely idea. What was the novel?

Well, not the whole novel. It was Mr Pye, by Mervyn Peake (who also wrote the Gormenghast trilogy) and each of the four movements represents one aspect of the book.

[sags_3]

There are different conventional parts to concertos - 3 mvts fast slow fast usually - but not always!
It starts of with exposition then there may be development, 2nd theme etc etc

Sonata is also in 3 mvts fast slow fast and also has a set form of exposition development etc....research into that - i cant remember anymore!!

I think the difference between the two is that a concerto is played by solo instrument and orchestra, although you can have concertos for orchestras where various instruments take the solo lead at points in the piece. A sonata is usually a solo instrument and piano/harpsichord, but can be 2-3 instruments eg with a cello or a sonata for 2 of the same instrument.

The difficult thing about the 2 is that there are always exceptions with composers trying to break convention!

[Noodelz]

Writing for an orchestra and a solo intrument makes it a concerto. Arranging it for solo piano and clarinet still makes it a concerto becasue it is just an arranged version. Both however usually use sonata form which often casues confusion.

[kenm]

I think the difference between the two is that a concerto is played by solo instrument and orchestra, although you can have concertos for orchestras where various instruments take the solo lead at points in the piece. A sonata is usually a solo instrument and piano/harpsichord, but can be 2-3 instruments eg with a cello or a sonata for 2 of the same instrument.

The difficult thing about the 2 is that there are always exceptions with composers trying to break convention!

Yes. Bach, "Italian Concerto": three movements for solo harpsichord.
Corelli, Handel, Geminiani and others: Concerti Grossi for string orchestra, with two violins, 'cello and keyboard continuo playing substantial sections soli.
Haydn, Sinfonia Concertante: solo vn, vc, ob, bn, orchestra (super piece, lots of showing off for soloists).
Mozart, Sinfonia Concertante: solo vn & va, orchestra (one of his best).
Brahms, Piano Concerto No 2: four movements.
Poulenc Sonata: trumpet, horn and trombone, three movements.
Gabrieli, Sonant Pian' e Forte: violino (probably rather like a viola), cornett, six sackbuts.

The last two illustrate the original meaning of sonata - sounded - in contrast to cantata - sung. Concerto and symphony have very similar original meanings: collected together and sounding together.