What Is An Adult Learner? Options

[cat_loves_flute]

Hi,

Just wondering about people's opinions on this. At what point to you become an "adult learner"? Obviously an adult who takes up an instrument for the first time or restarts. But what about people (there are lots on here!) who have been learning their instument through school and continue? Is it when you turn 18? Or when you leave school? I'm 21 and at university and technically am an adult but sure don't feel like one! Do you suddenly stop being a child pupil and become an adult one...?

Just realised the whole can of worms which may get opened about "When is someone an adult...."
I mean in terms of music and lessons etc.

Cat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[cat_loves_flute]

I don't think there is anything set in stone about this, but I usually term 'adult learners' to be those who have started to learn after they are 18. Somehow, I would find it hard teaching people for years, who, at 18 suddenly become an 'adult learner' although I guess this is their 'official' title.

David

Yeah, I though this would be the case! It's hard to distinguish.

[boogiecat]

This brings about the question "what is an adult..?" You could ask Beamish Boy about this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Anyways, I think someone who is 16 or 17 I would probably teach like someone who is over 18, mentally they're probably in the same boat and they will learn in a similar way. The relationship would be different of course.

[cat_loves_flute]

This brings about the question "what is an adult..?" You could ask Beamish Boy about this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Hahahahaa! I did think this, wasn't gonna say anything...

[anacrusis]

It's an interesting point, and I think there are a few smudgy grey areas.
I first took up the treble recorder at twenty, and laboriously taught myself the F-based fingerings; it took me about four or five months to get those basics. I got myself to a grade 6-ish level, possibly, but ended up stopping because I was exhausted with work and small babies, and didn't really tootle again until I was about 38, when I first got lessons too.
However, I first blew any kind of recorder at nine, started the piano at about ten, and the oboe at twelve, so had certainly got some musical background by the time I took up the treble. I still count myself as an adult learner on my recorders, though, because I didn't start learning to play them properly until I was grown up. However, when I played in a music festival this summer, the adjudicator effectively diminished the effect of awarding me the medal, by saying she thought she'd award it to the competitor who was probably the most experienced...there's no doubt I was the oldest, but that's not the same thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) .

[cat_loves_flute]

It's an interesting point, and I think there are a few smudgy grey areas.
I first took up the treble recorder at twenty, and laboriously taught myself the F-based fingerings; it took me about four or five months to get those basics. I got myself to a grade 6-ish level, possibly, but ended up stopping because I was exhausted with work and small babies, and didn't really tootle again until I was about 38, when I first got lessons too.
However, I first blew any kind of recorder at nine, started the piano at about ten, and the oboe at twelve, so had certainly got some musical background by the time I took up the treble. I still count myself as an adult learner on my recorders, though, because I didn't start learning to play them properly until I was grown up. However, when I played in a music festival this summer, the adjudicator effectively diminished the effect of awarding me the medal, by saying she thought she'd award it to the competitor who was probably the most experienced...there's no doubt I was the oldest, but that's not the same thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) .

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) But you got the medal because you deserved it!

[anacrusis]

Well, I hope it wasn't just cos she was feeling sorry for me, with my greying hair.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
(the more cheerful twist at the end of it was that she was surprised to hear I'd only had four years of recorder lessons)

[katyjay]

Unfortunately it does go with the territory when you're an adult learner. Once you get beyond the "new learner" stage, and are not conspicuously struggling with your instrument any more, the presumption is that you've played or sung for years.

I got a snide comment when I sang at a local High Scorer's event. And, of course, looking for professional singing work with a shiny new licentiate I'm competing with people who are either 20 years younger than me or have 20 years' more experience.

I think that it will take a time before people are prepared to accept, whether in festivals or exams or otherwise, that not everyone who plays an instrument started as a youngster.

[Melody Amour]

I think that people who started their instruments when they were a child should probably be classed as improvers rather than adult learners because they didn't learn their instrument when they were an adult but as a child.

[anacrusis]

But again, how do you determine that - and what does it really mean? I view myself as a player of recorders, but didn't learn F instruments until I was an adult, though knew the fingering of the first octave and a half on a C instrument as a kid. I count the time I was learning recorders as the first four years of proper lessons, plus a little bit for having self-taught a decade or two before that, not the time when in school going toot toot with everyone else. I'm sure Katyjay will have blown recorders as a kid too, though she is a bit younger than I am (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . Similarly most of us will have been singing since very little, but some singers might only have started singing lessons as adults - are they then improvers or adult learners? If someone learns to a very basic level as a kid, but then returns as an adult, then although they might not be starting completely from scratch, it might very well feel like that.
Equally, I'd have to accept I've not had to learn reading notation in adulthood - and that is a big part of learning music too.

[andante_in_c]

OK, here's my contribution, for what it's worth.

Flute: definitely not an Adult Learner, even though I have regular lessons. Why? I started it when I was 14, and took all my grade exams before I was 18. I took my diploma only a few years ago ago, when I was in my 40s, but that doesn't make me an AL.

Piano: definitely an AL. First few lessons at 17, a few more in my 20s and a Grade 3, most in the last few years and working towards Grade 8.

Singing: definitely an AL. I sang in choirs at school, but there is a world of difference between singing in choirs and being trained as a singer. I've only been learning to sing for two years.

Recorder: the tricky one. Started at 9, played lots until 14, as it was my only instrument and I was desperate to make music. Then flute took over, because I could have proper lessons and take part in orchestras with flute - nothing was available to me on recorder. I really started playing recorder seriously again around three years ago, as a result of joining these Forums and meeting jo.clarinet! Have been on courses during the last few years where the difference between my playing standard and my total ignorance (to start with) of the consort repertoire has raised a few eyebrows. And I took my one and only exam (Grade 8) as an adult, two years ago.

And which is my main instrument? I haven't a clue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[katyjay]

Anacrusis, you're right that I'd blown a recorder or two as a young'un. I had my first descant as a sixth (I think) birthday present (after SERIOUSLY pestering my parents that everyone else at school had one) and my treble the next year (with the same argument as before being slightly less valid.....) But school recorder classes didn't teach me anything (I'd worked my way through The School Recorder Book 1 and taught myself to read music in the process before I was officially old enough to join the school recorder group). And they stopped when I left primary school at the age of 9.

And I sang in school choirs and church choirs from when I was about 10 until I was 22. And then stopped, as studying for my accountancy exams and building my career didn't leave me any time for hobbies.

But studying recorder seriously, or singing seriously, didn't happen until I was in my late thirties. So I feel justified in calling myself an adult learner in both of those areas. And, of course, for violin I am unequivocally an adult learner given that I had never touched one until shortly before my first lesson two years ago.

[barry-clari]

It is a tad tricky pinning down sometimes where you'd consider yourself to be an adult learner, and where you wouldn't.

For me, I'd say clarinet, sax, flute I'm not, recorder is a bit borderline, singing a definite yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sarah-flute]

I'd consider myself as an adult learner on flute, because I returned to it as an adult after some years of not playing seriously. I'm also mostly self taught and my only real flute lessons are all post age 18 anyway. That said, I don't fit neatly into the definition some people would give.

Piano: erm, not sure. I did have 3 years of lessons as a child but then hardly played the thing (and indeed for a while didn't even have access to a piano) for 13 years.

Violin: definitely not, as I had lessons for most of my childhood and have not had since. Viola also not as I learned it off the back of violin and have not had lessons as an adult.

Cello: Definitely an AL.

Singing: ditto

Recorders/clarinet etc... no idea, wouldn't class myself as a serious learner of them (& have had no lessons) anyway so whether I am an adult learner or not doesn't seem to apply!

[Maizie]

I would class myself as an adult learner - because an adult learner kind of has to include both adult starters and adult improvers!

I've played the recorder as long as I can remember, having proper lessons from 11-16 years of age. I got to G4ish in this time (though no exams taken after age 14).
After a 15 year break, yes, I can still read music, yes, I can still play the recorder, and it turns out that it's not taken toooooo much to get me back to G3ish. So that's definitely adult re-starter or adult improver.

As with new starters, I'm completely out of touch with teachers, teaching, etc, etc. When I was in full-time education, if I wanted to (re-)start learning an instrument, you would just speak to the music teacher and a peri would be sorted out. Now I have to find a teacher all on my own, work out the logistics all on my own, figure out where to find the money to pay for the lesson, getting to the lesson, finding an accompanist (when the time comes), finding a way of doing aural test practice (when the time comes), etc.
If I'd continued lessons, I would probably face some of these problems but (i) not all at once and (ii) I'd have existing teacher/etc to ask about it all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hey, maybe I should see if my mum can help me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)