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> Chopin Conclusion, Regarding Etudes
IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 23 2005, 10:50 PM
Post #46


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[quote name='sl123451' date='Nov 23 2005, 10:48 PM' post='195629']
[/quote]

Finally, something you agree with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Is the Neapolitan 6th Chopin's signature chord? I've never been 100% sure on this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

And for the record, I can't go into a thesis about it since I don't know much about that kinda thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

IrisH - LoonY
[/quote]

shut up!!
[/quote]

Now now, Temper!

IrisH - LoonY
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 23 2005, 11:15 PM
Post #47


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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 23 2005, 10:40 PM) *

Chopin's was the Neapolitan 6th, anyone else agree?

IrisH - LoonY

Do you know what a Neapolitan 6th is?

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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YetAnotherPianist
post Nov 23 2005, 11:17 PM
Post #48


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QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 23 2005, 11:15 PM) *

Do you know what a Neapolitan 6th is?

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Isn't it the one made up of a vanilla 3rd, a strawberry 3rd and a chocolate 3rd? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif).
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 23 2005, 11:21 PM
Post #49


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QUOTE(YetAnotherPianist @ Nov 23 2005, 11:17 PM) *

QUOTE(SteveHopwood @ Nov 23 2005, 11:15 PM) *

Do you know what a Neapolitan 6th is?

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Isn't it the one made up of a vanilla 3rd, a strawberry 3rd and a chocolate 3rd? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif).

Idiot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) You weren't supposed to give the game away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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saxlover
post Nov 23 2005, 11:23 PM
Post #50


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Do you like Impromptu No/5 IL? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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sl123451
post Nov 23 2005, 11:28 PM
Post #51


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i think tomorrow IL will come in boasting he has "mastered" chopins "5th ballade" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 23 2005, 11:28 PM
Post #52


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QUOTE(saxlover @ Nov 23 2005, 11:23 PM) *

Do you like Impromptu No/5 IL? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Or his definitive 6th symphony? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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sl123451
post Nov 23 2005, 11:30 PM
Post #53


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i must say though. He has kept his temper well this time, we have 2 give him credit there!

He just doesnt know when to shut up and go away.
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SteveHopwood
post Nov 23 2005, 11:34 PM
Post #54


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QUOTE(sl123451 @ Nov 23 2005, 11:28 PM) *

i think tomorrow IL will come in boasting he has "mastered" chopins "5th ballade" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Is that before or after starting to fail with the seminal 6th Scherzo?

QUOTE(sl123451 @ Nov 23 2005, 11:30 PM) *

i must say though. He has kept his temper well this time, we have 2 give him credit there!

He just doesnt know when to shut up and go away.

Who doesn't? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Are you suggesting we have heard from him before? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Where? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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pianostar
post Nov 24 2005, 04:37 PM
Post #55


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Oh my gosh! Finallly!
*ahem* Sorry, I'm intruding rudely again. *tries to keep it down*

I was actually looking for that chord...the ''Chopin's signature'' chord. I even asked my music teacher, who is really good at music, and he said that he didn't know...and I was really shocked, because if Mr Jones doesn't know...then NO-ONE knows, seriously!!!

But you guys know! This is awesome!
Steve - pleaaaaase explain what a Neapolitan 6th is? I don't know, but I would very much like to find out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Is it a bit like a German 6th? I believe that that is...an ''augmented 6th chord on the flattened submediant, and usually resolves to a 6/4 chord on the dominant.''
I don't really understand what that means...I understand parts of it, but I don't know what ''6/4'' means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 24 2005, 05:02 PM
Post #56


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QUOTE(pianostar @ Nov 24 2005, 04:37 PM) *

Oh my gosh! Finallly!
*ahem* Sorry, I'm intruding rudely again. *tries to keep it down*

I was actually looking for that chord...the ''Chopin's signature'' chord. I even asked my music teacher, who is really good at music, and he said that he didn't know...and I was really shocked, because if Mr Jones doesn't know...then NO-ONE knows, seriously!!!

But you guys know! This is awesome!
Steve - pleaaaaase explain what a Neapolitan 6th is? I don't know, but I would very much like to find out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Is it a bit like a German 6th? I believe that that is...an ''augmented 6th chord on the flattened submediant, and usually resolves to a 6/4 chord on the dominant.''
I don't really understand what that means...I understand parts of it, but I don't know what ''6/4'' means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


I think this is the Neapolitan 6th:

The augmented 6th of a minor key in first inversion.

IrisH - LoonY
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pianostar
post Nov 24 2005, 05:24 PM
Post #57


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I think this is the Neapolitan 6th:

The augmented 6th of a minor key in first inversion.

IrisH - LoonY
[/quote]


Oh, thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So, so, so...*am going to try and pretend to be clever*

So...say...lets take...C# minor. I'm assuming it's the tonic chord you take, right?
So, okay, C#minor= C# E G#
Lets augment that...and we'll get: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) erm...*shivers*
Okay, I'm lost. I'm very shaky when it comes to augmenting and diminishing. Could somebody help out please?

Ooh, hang on - I can invert it by myself though! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) C#minor inverted = EG# C#.

That's all folks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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chocolatedog
post Nov 24 2005, 05:32 PM
Post #58


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QUOTE(pianostar @ Nov 24 2005, 04:37 PM) *

Oh my gosh! Finallly!
*ahem* Sorry, I'm intruding rudely again. *tries to keep it down*

I was actually looking for that chord...the ''Chopin's signature'' chord. I even asked my music teacher, who is really good at music, and he said that he didn't know...and I was really shocked, because if Mr Jones doesn't know...then NO-ONE knows, seriously!!!

But you guys know! This is awesome!
Steve - pleaaaaase explain what a Neapolitan 6th is? I don't know, but I would very much like to find out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Is it a bit like a German 6th? I believe that that is...an ''augmented 6th chord on the flattened submediant, and usually resolves to a 6/4 chord on the dominant.''
I don't really understand what that means...I understand parts of it, but I don't know what ''6/4'' means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)



I can give you an example - (chords, reading from bottom up) Ab-Eb-C-Fsharp resolving to G-E-C-G (I think that's right.) 6/4 is a symbol which means the 2nd inversion of a chord, so a C major chord in 6/4 would be G-C-E again reading from the bottom.

QUOTE(chocolatedog @ Nov 24 2005, 05:28 PM) *

QUOTE(pianostar @ Nov 24 2005, 04:37 PM) *

Oh my gosh! Finallly!
*ahem* Sorry, I'm intruding rudely again. *tries to keep it down*

I was actually looking for that chord...the ''Chopin's signature'' chord. I even asked my music teacher, who is really good at music, and he said that he didn't know...and I was really shocked, because if Mr Jones doesn't know...then NO-ONE knows, seriously!!!

But you guys know! This is awesome!
Steve - pleaaaaase explain what a Neapolitan 6th is? I don't know, but I would very much like to find out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Is it a bit like a German 6th? I believe that that is...an ''augmented 6th chord on the flattened submediant, and usually resolves to a 6/4 chord on the dominant.''
I don't really understand what that means...I understand parts of it, but I don't know what ''6/4'' means. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)



I can give you an example - (chords, reading from bottom up) Ab-Eb-C-Fsharp resolving to G-E-C-G (I think that's right.) 6/4 is a symbol which means the 2nd inversion of a chord, so a C major chord in 6/4 would be G-C-E again reading from the bottom.


Sorry - this is C major I'm talking about here, by the way. This progression often comes at a cadence as (can't remember what the chord symbol is for a neap.6th) bVI(sharp - sorry can't do a single hash!)-Ic-V-I.
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IrisH - LoonY
post Nov 24 2005, 06:15 PM
Post #59


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Take C major as root position you get C and A

Supertonic is D yes? you get D and B

Diminish that and you get D flat and you get D flat and A flat

First inversion is F and D flat

That is the Neapolitan 6th (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Its usually in a minor key though.

IrisH - LoonY
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pianostar
post Nov 24 2005, 07:52 PM
Post #60


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QUOTE(IrisH - LoonY @ Nov 24 2005, 06:15 PM) *

Take C major as root position you get C and A

Supertonic is D yes? you get D and B

Diminish that and you get D flat and you get D flat and A flat

First inversion is F and D flat

That is the Neapolitan 6th (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Its usually in a minor key though.

IrisH - LoonY




*blinks* ...*sobs* I'm the most stupid person alive! Even after chocolatedog and Irish Loony have kindly wasted their time to explain this to me ...I still don't get it. But I will try to...okay....

So, C major in root position is C E G. A is the submediant - so it's the 6th note of the scale of C. So, a Naepolitan 6th is C,E,G,A? Is that right? *has a feeling it isn't because then, that would just be a 6th chord*
Yes, supertonic of C major is D. But, I'm really sorry, I don't understand how that is of any relevance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Why do we need the supertonic?
(I know, I know, I should be...murdered...)

But I do understand what 6/4 means now, thanks to chocolatedog! *huggles* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And oh my gosh - you know what? I just figured out why!!! Look, look: If you invert a chord 2 times, (so its the second inversion) like, G C E - the interval from G to C is a 4th!!! And - and and - the interval from G to E is a 6th!! WAAHEEY! Maybe I'm not as stupid as I thought I was! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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