Misconception About Consultation Lessons? Options

[chocolatedog]

I'm obviously in the wrong areas of the country and charging far too little!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I'll have to move south!!

[eldatom]

[quote name='DocOx' date='Apr 1 2010, 03:49 PM' post='936938']
Hi,

I am new to the 'game' of finding a teacher (no such a thing where I come from!) and, after some research, I believe to have found a couple of (piano) teachers which I think might be good for me.

I have contacted one of them and she suggested having a consultation lesson. Maybe I am being naive, but I somehow assumed that such a lesson would be the occasion for her to 'sell' herself to me, and this at no cost to me. Anyway, now that we have finally agreed on a date and time, she's telling me that the consultation lesson will last 30 minutes and that it will cost me £25 (I am based just a few miles south of Oxford, in case it matters). Now, I have no idea whether this is 'normal' practice, hence I would appreciate you guys' view/experience on this matter.

Just in case, I am expecting (based on what I have read here and there) to have to pay £20-25 per hour for a 'proper' lesson, and I am completely 'OK' with that. I guess I just didn't expect having to pay £25 for a 30-minute consultation lesson.

Cheers, Alan.

PS: now thinking about it, maybe I should have inquired about costs before booking anything... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
[/quote

I would have thought that £25 per half hour was quite steep, is it that she is a concert pianist? I pay £24 per hour. I never had a consultation lesson and went straight into a regular lesson.

Word of mouth is always a good option. We found my teacher as she was already teaching my son kindermusic at the local music centre and we have never looked back. She is lovely, the down side is she is always so busy, so there are occasions that she has to miss lessons and there never seems to be the opportunity to have extra if you would like to.

Good luck with your piano lessons.

[DocOx]

Firstly, welcome to the forums.

Thanks!

Secondly, Abingdon, when I grew up there (Holland Road), was well served with music teachers. In addition to the regular schools and the one-to-one lessons there was a Saturday morning music school for those children who were interested and quite a few from there went on to make careers in music. Although that started at John Mason in the 60's, (when it was a Grammar School, though the music school was completely independent), it moved to The Old Gaol sometime in the 70's, shortly after I gave up music lessons and then left home. How are things there now?

I wouldn't know. I came in the area, from France, for work...

Thirdly, whether it's called a consultation or a lesson or a consultation lesson it is half an hour of teachers time: I would expect to pay the normal rate, but I would also expect to get clear up front what the charge (if any) is.

Fourthly, the first visit isn't just for the teacher to pitch to you: It cuts both ways.

I didn't initially think of it that way, but I have to agree with you, time (and expertise) is money. I guess I was just surprised by the cost. Had it been £25 for an hour (as I have seen here and there), I would probably not have started this thread.

Only my daughter's Recorder Teacher ever offered a Consultaion lesson. It was paid for at his normal rate. As someone else said it was used to see if she wanted to continue lessons and indeed if hew wanted to teach her on a regular basis. She was at the time Grade 7 so not a beginner.

I guess different teachers have different ideas.

I guess that, if anything, this thread will have shown that this is indeed the case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hope the Piano lessons work out for you.

Thanks, I hope so too. At the end of the day, I am happy to pay more than the 'norm', if it means that the teaching is also going to be better than the 'norm'.

I'm obviously in the wrong areas of the country and charging far too little!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I'll have to move south!!

I'm obviously in the wrong area of the country and about to pay far too much!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I'll have to move North!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I would have thought that £25 per half hour was quite steep, is it that she is a concert pianist? I pay £24 per hour. I never had a consultation lesson and went straight into a regular lesson.

She is indeed a concert pianist, which I guess might explain (a lot)...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Word of mouth is always a good option. We found my teacher as she was already teaching my son kindermusic at the local music centre and we have never looked back. She is lovely, the down side is she is always so busy, so there are occasions that she has to miss lessons and there never seems to be the opportunity to have extra if you would like to.

That's one of my problems (besides not being 100% familiar with the British musical system), i.e. the fact that I don't know anyone in the area who is learning the piano, so I had to rely on what I could find on the Internet. There are some good resources, though it's still a bit of a gamble and probably the reason I am happy to have a consultation lesson (rather than commit myself to several lessons, hoping that we would get along and that I would be happy with her teaching).

Good luck with your piano lessons.

Thanks!

[musicmanNZ]

Hi

I wonder if you also shouldn't just check before the consultation lesson exactly what the cost of her normal lessons are and thus check that they fall within your budget.

It would be disappointing for you to have the consultation lesson, really like the teacher and subsequently find that the weekly cost is prohibitive.

Perhaps you could ring her on the 'pretext' of confirming the consultation lesson and 'casually' ask the regular lesson price ?

Musicman's Mum

[Halka]

A couple of years ago my daughter had three "consultation lessons" during school holidays with an orchestral clarinettist. His policy was to charge 50% more for the first such lesson than for subsequent lessons with the same student. So there may be some hope that regular lessons with this piano teacher would not be quite so expensive as the first one. But yes, worth checking.

[Dulciana]

As I think it was hinted above, 'consultation' could imply that she'll be making the decision on that occasion as to whether or not she's happy to teach YOU, as well as vice versa. As for the fee - she must reckon she's worth it and is able to command it. Whether or not you do is up to you! Don't be afraid to ask about previous successes - not just the standard of musicians she has 'turned out', but what standard they were when they first arrived on her doorstep. How much did she improve them? I'm not saying it's the case this time, but some teachers rely on their performance reputation rather than their teaching reputation. There is a difference. And some may only be interested in you in the long term with regard to how much you will add to their reputation. I hope I don't sound cynical; I do hope this works out for you - but consider your own goals carefully and make them clear to her.

[DocOx]

I wonder if you also shouldn't just check before the consultation lesson exactly what the cost of her normal lessons are and thus check that they fall within your budget.

It would be disappointing for you to have the consultation lesson, really like the teacher and subsequently find that the weekly cost is prohibitive.

Perhaps you could ring her on the 'pretext' of confirming the consultation lesson and 'casually' ask the regular lesson price ?

I hear what you are saying, but I can't see myself asking her that kind of question over the phone. I would prefer to ask her in person. Otherwise, should the weekly cost be 'prohibitive', maybe I could have fortnight lessons? I am not sure whether it would be wise, but it might still be better than nothing (assuming that she would be OK with it)?

A couple of years ago my daughter had three "consultation lessons" during school holidays with an orchestral clarinettist. His policy was to charge 50% more for the first such lesson than for subsequent lessons with the same student. So there may be some hope that regular lessons with this piano teacher would not be quite so expensive as the first one. But yes, worth checking.

I will make sure to have a list of questions I want to ask before going there, and one of those questions will definitely be about costs! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As I think it was hinted above, 'consultation' could imply that she'll be making the decision on that occasion as to whether or not she's happy to teach YOU, as well as vice versa. As for the fee - she must reckon she's worth it and is able to command it. Whether or not you do is up to you! Don't be afraid to ask about previous successes - not just the standard of musicians she has 'turned out', but what standard they were when they first arrived on her doorstep. How much did she improve them? I'm not saying it's the case this time, but some teachers rely on their performance reputation rather than their teaching reputation. There is a difference. And some may only be interested in you in the long term with regard to how much you will add to their reputation. I hope I don't sound cynical; I do hope this works out for you - but consider your own goals carefully and make them clear to her.

You might very well be right! I suppose that, as a concert pianist, she must value her time and probably want to make sure that whoever she's going to teach is actually worth teaching. As for me, I have very clear goals (whether they are realistic or not is another matter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), and I intend to assess her on the basis of whether she can help me reaching them.

[skylark]

...should the weekly cost be 'prohibitive', maybe I could have fortnight lessons? I am not sure whether it would be wise, but it might still be better than nothing (assuming that she would be OK with it)?

It sounds as if you are assuming that this teacher will be "the one", and that you have accepted the notion of paying double(?) the going rate and resigned yourself to fortnightly lessons without approaching any other teachers. "Most expensive" may equal "best" in this instance, but it isn't necessarily the case. Both my piano teacher and my clarinet teacher are excellent but they charge no more than the going rate; indeed my clarinet teacher charged a good deal less than the going rate until I insisted on paying the same as I paid for my piano lessons as I felt guilty about it. You're not under any obligation to continue lessons with the first teacher you approach. She may charge more as a concert pianist but that doesn't necessarily make her a better teacher. One of my teachers was a professional performer but in my opinion wasn't as good a teacher as the replacement I found. Sometimes professional performers do teaching to enhance their income because performance income isn't enough to sustain them and have no real love of teaching or empathy with their students. What I'm trying to say is - do keep an open mind when you go and don't feel as if you have to fall over backwards to fit in with this one teacher by paying twice the rate and fortnightly lessons - there are other teachers out there who might be just as good if not better but who charge a more "normal" rate and with whom you could have weekly lessons.

[DocOx]

What I'm trying to say is - do keep an open mind when you go and don't feel as if you have to fall over backwards to fit in with this one teacher by paying twice the rate and fortnightly lessons - there are other teachers out there who might be just as good if not better but who charge a more "normal" rate and with whom you could have weekly lessons.

Be sure that I am keeping a very open mind. Being in academia, I know people who are very good at research, but very bad at teaching, and vice versa (and yes, there are also some who are good at both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), so if anything I am familiar with what you are describing here.

At the end of the day, I am just trying to think about all possible scenarios, though I have a pretty clear idea of which scenario I am after.

[twinklefingers]

Hiya!

I went for a consultation with a concert pianist in London - which was £35 for 45 minutes....however his usual rate is £85/hour! I know this seems a lot, but I am fully prepared to pay this!! He was amazing, and taught me things about my technique that has changed the way I play and teach some aspects of the piano.

Having lived in Oxford a few years back, I think that Oxford and London prices are VERY similar (housing/living costs/council tax etc) and I wouldn't be suprised if music costs were high there.

If you can afford a concert pianist from the beginning then do it!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mad Tom]

What is expensive? A well known concert pianist in the city of London charges 90 GBP per hour for lessons. At those rates an income of 100,000+ per year is easily possible - without working excessively long hours.

[And that just from teaching ... and he still has whatever he makes from 100 recitals a year and CD royalties]

[Dulciana]

What is your standard of playing at the minute? I know highly qualified and acclaimed teachers/musicians who are excellent at putting on the cream when the groundwork has been done by more 'ordinary' teachers, but who don't always display the same teaching talent with beginners or with those who are at an earlier stage. Please forgive the word 'ordinary'. What I mean is those unsung teachers who maintain motivation, know what will work and when, and are realistic with every individual. Not all of these teachers will be able to take you to Licentiate Diploma level, but not all concert pianists will be able to get the best from a Grade 2 pianist either!

[sbhoa]

You might very well be right! I suppose that, as a concert pianist, she must value her time and probably want to make sure that whoever she's going to teach is actually worth teaching. As for me, I have very clear goals (whether they are realistic or not is another matter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), and I intend to assess her on the basis of whether she can help me reaching them.

I'd be very uncomfortable with a teacher who I thought had ideas on who was worth teaching. I had a teacher once who would get rid of those who he considered were not doing as well as he wanted. He was, at that point, the most 'qualified' teacher I'd had (and currently a guest of Her Majesty but that' another story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)).

When moving on to a new piano teacher at the beginning of the year the one thing I knew I wanted was that the teacher enjoyed teaching. That's something that I don't think you have to ask as it usually comes across quite clearly when you meet and talk to a teacher. My new teacher is a concert pianist and I feel very comfortable with her and there has been no indication that she is the sort of person who likes to choose students who are 'worth her time'.

Generally I've found that 'gut reaction' is a good indicator.

[Czerny]

I'd be very uncomfortable with a teacher who I thought had ideas on who was worth teaching.

It may be more a case of ascertaining whether teaching and learning styles are likely to gel and whether it seems that a positive rapport will develop, rather than a more "judgemental" (or even arrogant) assessment of whether a pupil potentially comes up to scratch. And I guess if one isn't short of pupils and one's time is valuable, it's fair enough to be a bit choosy.

[Dulciana]

There are all sorts of varying agendas and preconditions on the part of both teacher and pupil, all of which are fair enough as long as they are made clear by both sides.