Sight Singing, using Solfa Options

[ExpressYourself]

I have recently started using solfa with my singing students. They don't read music and often find it hard to pitch correctly when singing repertoire. Using solfa has helped them sing penta-scales and octave scales in tune and I have also used the so-mi, so-mi-la, and so-mi-do nursery rhymes found in David Vinden's Songs for Singing.

I have written out these nursery rhymes in the key of C without the lyrics so that the kids don't think it's too babyish and have replaced lyrics with the solfa names. Once they have the hang of them (and some have really taken to it enthusiastically) I cover up the solfa names and see if they can read the notation instead. So far so good.

At what point should I change the notated key (although they are all singing in their most comfortable key). I don't know when to introduce that "so" doesn't have to be on a line, and can be in a space. Or even on another line. If I just stick with C they won't have a clue when looking at a piece in another key. Although perhaps that doesn't matter at the moment. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself.

I know I should do some proper Kodaly training but I just can't at the moment. Spending far too much time and money on my own piano and vocal training. I'm just so enthused with the positive response these exercises are getting and don't want them to get into an over-reliance on one key (a bit like the problem of the thumbs on middle C approach in piano)

PS does anyone else have a problem with the rhythm solfa name for quavers? ti? It gives my kids the giggles when we have two quavers together!! Or am I pronouncing it wrong?

[jod]

1) The rhythm names have nothing to do with solfa, the are cleve notation.
2) Unless your pupils have perfect pitch it really does not matter what keys you sing them in use the solfege and not the notation and do that from scratch. Only notate things in the key you want to sing things in and don't be to fussed within a semitone.

3) Unless you have a tame Kodaly specialist to bounce ideas off living down the road, formal tuition probably is a good idea.

[linda.ff]

2) Unless your pupils have perfect pitch it really does not matter what keys you sing them in use the solfege and not the notation and do that from scratch. Only notate things in the key you want to sing things in and don't be to fussed within a semitone.

But if you look at the threadhead, this is meant as a step towards sight-singing, isn't it?

[jod]

2) Unless your pupils have perfect pitch it really does not matter what keys you sing them in use the solfege and not the notation and do that from scratch. Only notate things in the key you want to sing things in and don't be to fussed within a semitone.

But if you look at the threadhead, this is meant as a step towards sight-singing, isn't it?

Start by familiarising pupils with the solfa first, then write in the notes, or if you do it together, ensure the key is correct within a tone. Songs should always be in range, and the solfege should always be appropriate to the key.

[Cyrilla]

This 'tame Kodaly specialist' will PM you, Express Yourself, as I am on the point of spontaneous combustion with regard to the forums at the moment.

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[JudithJ]

At what point should I change the notated key (although they are all singing in their most comfortable key). I don't know when to introduce that "so" doesn't have to be on a line, and can be in a space. Or even on another line. If I just stick with C they won't have a clue when looking at a piece in another key. Although perhaps that doesn't matter at the moment. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself.

Here in Hungary, the teachers use the five line staff from the very beginning of reading/writing on a staff. (ie. not a simplified 3 lines staff etc.) However, they don't use a clef or a key signature. In this way they can move the notes to any position on the staff.

For example, a smd song could be written on the middle three lines, or the first three spaces etc.

The children therefore become familiar with the solfa syllables being in any position right from the very beginning. The children in the lessons that I observe don't appear to have any difficulty with this.

One golden rule is that if you use a clef, then you must sing the notes demanded by that clef. ie. The third line on a treble clef must be B/Bb. However, if there is no clef, then you can sing in whatever key is comfortable.

Even if your students don't have perfect pitch, they will be developing muscle memory. So ensure that singing in letter names, or from a staff with a clef is always at the correct pitch.

(Obviously, years down the line the children are taught to transpose/transform at sight. However, at this stage the golden rule applies.)

PS does anyone else have a problem with the rhythm solfa name for quavers? ti? It gives my kids the giggles when we have two quavers together!! Or am I pronouncing it wrong?

I was taught that the Kodaly rhythm name for a quaver is pronounced as tea, which as you say can cause a problem with children with a certain kind of humour.

A Kodaly teacher in Scotland gets around this by pronouncing it as tay. If you go down this line, try to make the vowel as clean as possible. ie. a not a-ya. If you use a diphthong, then the children may put an inappropriate stress somewhere in the middle of the note.

Another Kodaly teacher gets around this by showing no sign of amusement when introducing the ti-ti rhythm, by presenting it as if it is as normal as any other rhythm name.

(Further fun will be had when learning the augmented 4th interval using far ti.)

[dolce@piano]

This 'tame Kodaly specialist' will PM you, Express Yourself, as I am on the point of spontaneous combustion with regard to the forums at the moment.

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Well, at least that made me smile !!!

Sorry, off topic I know . . . .

[maggiemay]

Haha - indeed.

I was very interested indeed to read Judith J's post. I'm not a Kodaly specialist by any means, but a couple of her points rang bells with me - especially the 'golden rule' about singing at the correct pitch.

I've taught sight-singing as a separate (ie not as part of an instrumental lesson) subject.

My instinctive feeling was that it is unhelpful in the extreme to transpose at this stage.

[ExpressYourself]

Thanks Judith for your detailed post.

The children therefore become familiar with the solfa syllables being in any position right from the very beginning. The children in the lessons that I observe don't appear to have any difficulty with this.

One golden rule is that if you use a clef, then you must sing the notes demanded by that clef. ie. The third line on a treble clef must be B/Bb. However, if there is no clef, then you can sing in whatever key is comfortable.

What I will certainly do is take the clef off my staff and use a variety of positions. It is reassuring that the children just take it in their stride and this will solve my issue over the introduction of new keys.

I'm interested in them singing the correct pitch once the clef is added. I haven't been doing that. I've just had everything notated in C and then transposed to a key more comfortable. So once I add the clef I need to rectify that. Most of my boys are singing in the bass clef range but pop music is all written in treble clef so I was thinking about doing it with the treble an octave down, like Tenors get. What do you think?

And Cyrilla, thanks for your PM. I have tried to reply but your inbox is full!! You're just so popular!! But my response was mostly the same as above (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jod]

I am glad Cyrilla has made contact as she is the person here who knows what she is talking about.

[Cyrilla]

My inbox now has a couple of spaces, EY!

And - yes - I think it's fine initially for the boys with changed voices to sing from treble clef. Eventually they will need to do both...

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[JudithJ]

Most of my boys are singing in the bass clef range but pop music is all written in treble clef so I was thinking about doing it with the treble an octave down, like Tenors get. What do you think?

I haven't observed or studied about teaching boys with lower voices. However, using the treble clef with the 8 underneath seems to be entirely appropriate. (Sorry, I've forgotten the name for this clef, and am too lazy to look it up.)


David Vinden's books are super. However, if you are currently unable to get Kodaly training, then may I suggest also investigating some of the GoFor resources from the NYCoS web site? http://www.nycos.co.uk/content/shop/produc...ulb897ronfla527

The National Youth Choir of Scotland has a series Go for Bronze 1/2, Go for Silver 1/2, Go for Gold 1/2. If the students pass Gold level 2, then the ABRSM will accept that in place of Grade 5 theory for higher practical exams.

The books were initially written to be used when teaching musicianship to the choir members, but they are now also used in schools. Teachers are given a short training course (I think that it is one day) before starting each new course, but the books may well give you teaching ideas and useful songs without attending a course.

The books give tips on how to move from one step to the next, and provide advice about how to reinforce if a pupil is struggling and how to stretch a student who finds it easy.


Edit: Sorry, I crossed with Cyrilla.
Hi Cyrilla!
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[jod]

Judith I have sung at A=440 and A=415 and various other shades of temperament.

Solfa has its basics in the 13th Century.

I am not advocating printing something in B and singing it in G, what I am saying is if your copy is in G and you realise that your pupil is really better off singing it in Ab, then do not be particularly worried.

Even as a singer most pupil's muscle memory is not going to be that fussed.

There are times I feel we do worry about splitting hairs!

After all the difference between A=440 and A=415 is about a semitone, and many organists throw in a Schusterfleck at the end of a hymn for a last verse for this not to cause a problem. Sight singing is about interval recognition and learning to hear and equate to solfege with the notes in their keys (when using it as an aid to sight-singing)

[Bagpuss]

I'm not altogether sure of the relevance of some of these comments *scratches head*. ANYWAY, moving swiftly on...

To the OP - jus' go with what The Boss (cyrilla) says! JudithJ is also highly trained in all things solfa-like and has an impressive understanding.

I use solfa mainly in training towards the AB sight-singing element for Grade 4 aural (and then it follows a logical progression towards the higher grades). I introduce it aurally first then on the stave in the 3 keys the candidates will be asked to sing in. Hand signs work an absolute treat here too. It is possible to "learn" every single permutation for the sight-singing element of the AB aural requirements (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Paw-Sign-Bag x

[maggiemay]

I'm not altogether sure of the relevance of some of these comments *scratches head*.

Interesting you say that - I thought it was me !

*joins in head-scratching*