Where Are All The Oboists These Days? Options

[flobiano]

(In the interim my teacher decided to swap the Albinoni D Major for Handel Sonata No1 in C minor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . I may still be "allowed" to do first movt of the Albinoni. He said there wasn't much difference in difficulty but from my first run through of the Handel the semi-quaver passages seem much more difficult. Aaaagh.)

I am looking at the first two movements of the Handel as a potential G8 piece. Yes, some the of the semi quaver bits are tricky. It is a lovely piece though.

Hope you've managed to get your oboe sorted out a bit now. I don't think it's uncommon for adjustment screws to work themselves out a bit - and don't think it would too unusual for more than one to need adjusting....hopefully you've managed to fix both problems.

Still undecided about trying out some professional models. My teacher wasn't suggesting that I NEED to upgrade but that it may give a bit of refinement.....and if i was thinking about it, she had someone else who would possibly be interested in mine, can't guarantee until they've tried it out. She is also thinking of replacing her own and is planning a trip to Howarths so would be able to maybe bring back a few for me to try. Decisions, decisions....

[katica]

Still undecided about trying out some professional models. My teacher wasn't suggesting that I NEED to upgrade but that it may give a bit of refinement.....and if i was thinking about it, she had someone else who would possibly be interested in mine, can't guarantee until they've tried it out. She is also thinking of replacing her own and is planning a trip to Howarths so would be able to maybe bring back a few for me to try. Decisions, decisions....

If you can wait that long you can try mine at Stalybridge. That is, if I haven't handed it over for servicing. I'm thinking of doing that and renting a replacement, if that's possible. Haven't asked Howarths yet.

When my teacher first said Handel No1 I thought he meant the concerto, which I see is on the G6 syllabus and therefore more likely to be within my capabilities (...maybe). I see the Albinoni is on G7. I think you played that, didn't you, flobiano?

But no, it's the Sonata. The whole thing. So I'll be grateful for any practising tips. I am very, very definitely not G8 standard. Sometimes I wonder how I'd do on G5 at the moment. It's noticeable with the lack of technique on the fast bits and ornaments but also on those long adagio notes - indeed, it would be lovely if I could play it well. Vaguely emergent vibrato seems to have completely receded. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Mind you I see that itchy1 tried the Handel Sonata quite a long way back and she(he) only took G6 quite recently. So, I just mustn't be defeated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I am not going to get much teaching on this before I actually have to play it. Just one lesson (tomorrow) before the end of term exam and then I am away until the third week of August. The recital is in September, or maybe end of August. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Despite the need to run through exam stuff I am going to plead with teach to give me a quick session on Oblivion tomorrow. I haven't done any work on it for a while - but it doesn't seem to be too hard and I don't want it to get stale. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

HELP!

I think I might have a problem with the XL.

If it's what I think it is it's a simple adjustment of one vent. The S40 has a similar linkage and I had a similar issue in that the C key had to be held down for bottom B or Bb (it should be possible with just the D closed or C#).

I've just realised that your oboe is slightly different from mine. I don't think on the XL I've ever been able to play B with just the D closed, only with C# (and C, obviously).

I see from a discussion on the BBoard that the mechanism to do play B with just D is quite popular in the UK/Europe but it isn't ubiquitous and apparently it means that some of the altissimo notes are harder. So a very useful modification (would make that ghastly arpeggio I mentioned sooo much easier) but it has it's costs. But then how often do you need to play G# and above?

[flobiano]

If you can wait that long you can try mine at Stalybridge. That is, if I haven't handed it over for servicing. I'm thinking of doing that and renting a replacement, if that's possible. Haven't asked Howarths yet.

That would be good, thanks. I don't want to rush into buying anything (or be pushed into it because it suits other people).

When my teacher first said Handel No1 I thought he meant the concerto, which I see is on the G6 syllabus and therefore more likely to be within my capabilities (...maybe). I see the Albinoni is on G7. I think you played that, didn't you, flobiano?

Yes I did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But no, it's the Sonata. The whole thing. So I'll be grateful for any practising tips. I am very, very definitely not G8 standard. Sometimes I wonder how I'd do on G5 at the moment. It's noticeable with the lack of technique on the fast bits and ornaments but also on those long adagio notes - indeed, it would be lovely if I could play it well. Vaguely emergent vibrato seems to have completely receded. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Mind you I see that itchy1 tried the Handel Sonata quite a long way back and she(he) only took G6 quite recently. So, I just mustn't be defeated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I've only done the first 2 movements - we spent quite a long time at my last lesson just talking about the first note of the adagio. I had a break through with vaguely emergent vibrato yesterday....only that it began to vaguely emerge, but it seemed to have gone back into hiding again today. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I have no revolutionary practice techniques - I have spent a lot of time just focussing on the semi quaver bits of the second movement playing with different rhythms and gradually speeding up with a metronome. They are still a bit untidy in places though. I'll try and remember to bring it to Staleybridge.

I am not going to get much teaching on this before I actually have to play it. Just one lesson (tomorrow) before the end of term exam and then I am away until the third week of August. The recital is in September, or maybe end of August. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Despite the need to run through exam stuff I am going to plead with teach to give me a quick session on Oblivion tomorrow. I haven't done any work on it for a while - but it doesn't seem to be too hard and I don't want it to get stale. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hopefully will be light relief. I need to ask my teacher to do some work with me on the Arioso as well. It's coming on OK I just need to try and find some convincing vibrato from somewhere....and a bit more lung capacity for the last line. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I've just realised that your oboe is slightly different from mine. I don't think on the XL I've ever been able to play B with just the D closed, only with C# (and C, obviously).

Seems a bit strange that the XL doesn't do everything the S40/45 does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I would really miss that facility - it really does make life easier. Though looking at the spec for the XL it should have the B-C linkage which allows you to play the B without your RH little finger being down. I would ask about it when you take it in because that doesn't seem right at all.

[Arundodonuts]

I've just realised that your oboe is slightly different from mine. I don't think on the XL I've ever been able to play B with just the D closed, only with C# (and C, obviously).

Seems a bit strange that the XL doesn't do everything the S40/45 does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I would really miss that facility - it really does make life easier. Though looking at the spec for the XL it should have the B-C linkage which allows you to play the B without your RH little finger being down. I would ask about it when you take it in because that doesn't seem right at all.

Seems odd to me too. However, my teacher always insists on putting down C or C# for B or Bb and did seem to find it strange that I didn't necessarily do so. I figured it was down to what you are taught. But....... she plays an XL.

Re. LH Eb and C. Mine won't play C with LH Eb depressed. Until now I just thought it simply wasn't possible - but having a look this evening it seems to me that a tweak on the adjusting screw of the Eb vent (in the same way I mentioned on the C#) might do the trick. I shall give it a go. But not now. I'm off to bed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

[katica]

I've just realised that your oboe is slightly different from mine. I don't think on the XL I've ever been able to play B with just the D closed, only with C# (and C, obviously).

Seems a bit strange that the XL doesn't do everything the S40/45 does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) I would really miss that facility - it really does make life easier. Though looking at the spec for the XL it should have the B-C linkage which allows you to play the B without your RH little finger being down. I would ask about it when you take it in because that doesn't seem right at all.

Seems odd to me too. However, my teacher always insists on putting down C or C# for B or Bb and did seem to find it strange that I didn't necessarily do so. I figured it was down to what you are taught. But....... she plays an XL.

I just re-checked and the thumbplate XL has the low B-C link but the conservatoire model (which I have) doesn't.
The articulated C# should be working better, though.

Thanks for your help. 'Night 'night.

[Arundodonuts]

I just re-checked and the thumbplate XL has the low B-C link but the conservatoire model (which I have) doesn't.

Ah yes, I've just spotted the additional link on the photos on Howarth's page. Interesting.

Kerioboe, is your's thumbplate or conservatoire?

[Roseau]

I just re-checked and the thumbplate XL has the low B-C link but the conservatoire model (which I have) doesn't.

Ah yes, I've just spotted the additional link on the photos on Howarth's page. Interesting.

Kerioboe, is your's thumbplate or conservatoire?

Mine's conservatoire. I was working all day yesterday so I have only just caught up on these questions and haven't yet had time to try the fingerings out (will do so later). But one question does come to mind, how do you finger 3rd octave Eb if your C key closes automatically when you press the B key? I use the B key only for this (I mean only as in without the C key - obviously I put other fingers down as well). My teacher also uses the B key an awful lot to colour the tone of G (1st and 2nd octave) - I do occasionally in slow passages (mainly because I haven't internalised its use and have to think about it), if the C key came down as well this would probably make it very flat.

And re the differences between the Howarth conservatoire and thumbplate oboes - I emailed them about an oboe for my daughter and they confirmed that the S20 conservatoire has both a 3rd octave key and a left F and the thumbplate version has neither.

[Arundodonuts]

Mine's conservatoire. I was working all day yesterday so I have only just caught up on these questions and haven't yet had time to try the fingerings out (will do so later). But one question does come to mind, how do you finger 3rd octave Eb if your C key closes automatically when you press the B key?

LH little finger goes on G# not B.

My teacher also uses the B key an awful lot to colour the tone of G (1st and 2nd octave)

As did my first teacher (conservatoire oboe). She didn't actually mention it but she seemed to do it pretty much habitually. I'll ask my current teacher (thumbplate).

And re the differences between the Howarth conservatoire and thumbplate oboes - I emailed them about an oboe for my daughter and they confirmed that the S20 conservatoire has both a 3rd octave key and a left F and the thumbplate version has neither.

I'm beginning to realise there is much more difference between conservatoire and thumbplate that merely clagging on a thumbplate. Of course the mid to upper Howarth range are "dual system" rather than "thumbplate", so what does that imply?

This lot below is from the scales thread elsewhere. I figured it ought to be here instead.

The G# key shouldn't have any effect at all - you can hold the G# key down while you play all the lower notes and it doesn't change anything. If it does change something then it means the oboe is poorly regulated.

Agreed. I sometimes leave the G#/Ab depressed if I'm going lower and coming back to it quickly. Another one of those things I think my teacher considers a bit of a cheat. It is exactly what you would do on strings though - don't move a finger if you are going to come back to it and it doesn't get in the way in the interim. Perhaps it's down to my earlier viola playing (and kerioboe's cello?) that I (we?) do this.

Finally if by B-C mechancism, you mean that the C key closes when you press the B key, this is frowned upon by some oboists as it limits alternative fingerings.

That makes sense.

Some Italian oboes apparently have an alternative C key with your right-hand thumb, which has always struck me as a potentially useful idea.

I think I'm right in saying the Italian "Prestini" system has C# moved to the B key and the B moves to the right thumb. That facilitates both low Bb-B and C-C# changes. Very clever in my book.

It is possible however to have a LH C# fitted alongside the LH F. One of the profs at RNCM has one like this. Oh and Alex Klein has a low A on the right thumb. So anything goes I suppose. Don't get me started on alternative button layouts on the melodeon - that would fill an encyclopaedia.

[Roseau]

Thanks for moving things Pushpull (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I read the scales thread first and the oboe thread afterwards and only realised the conversation had moved threads after I'd replied (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Re the B key when playing G - my teacher never mentioned it either but I asked him one day and he then said that since I'd asked, I might as well try.

Do you know anyone who plays on a dual system one? And if you do, which system did they start on?

[Arundodonuts]

Thanks for moving things Pushpull (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I read the scales thread first and the oboe thread afterwards and only realised the conversation had moved threads after I'd replied (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Re the B key when playing G - my teacher never mentioned it either but I asked him one day and he then said that since I'd asked, I might as well try.

Do you know anyone who plays on a dual system one? And if you do, which system did they start on?

Well I play a dual system. As I said, the higher level Howarths (and others too I believe) are dual system. I thought they were conservatoire with an added thumbplate but I'm inclined now to think they are thumbplate with a bit of added conservatoire (notably the link between top and middle joints which allows for C and Bb with the RH index finger. I do use these now and then for a bit of colour.

[Roseau]

Well I play a dual system. As I said, the higher level Howarths (and others too I believe) are dual system. I thought they were conservatoire with an added thumbplate but I'm inclined now to think they are thumbplate with a bit of added conservatoire (notably the link between top and middle joints which allows for C and Bb with the RH index finger. I do use these now and then for a bit of colour.

That's what I was wondering (ie which system is the "basic" one).

On the Howarth website second hand list, they sometimes say "dual system" and sometimes "conservatoire with added thump plate" so maybe there is a difference depending on what sort of "basic" oboe you start with. I suppose we need to find someone who has the latter type and compare it with yours.

[Roseau]

Katica, I've just tried your fingering and I have to say I like it - it does make the B to D# change much cleaner.

On my XL it works with either the C or the C# key down for the B (although I find the C easier). I think the G# is not so much that you have to hold it down as that it is very awkward not to hold it down when you are pressing both the B and the D# keys.

[Arundodonuts]

OK this evenings update.

With a little screw tweaking I can now get bottom C to sound with the LH Eb held down (it didn't previously).
B and Bb colour the G but perhaps surprisingly the pitch doesn't drop (even though the C vent closes too).
Another little experimental turn of the screw now has the Bb a little easier to sound (maybe! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

[Roseau]

I too have an evening update:

If I play 3rd octave E flat with the G# key instead of the B key it is horribly sharp.
If I try to colour G with the B key and the C key it is very noticeably flat.

[katica]

I've read all of this with a lot of interest... still trying to process it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for moving this discussion, pushpull. We were in dire danger of boring all the other scales thread readers, I think!

Curiously, my B-C# articulation sounds better today. Wonder why. The key does rattle a bit though, so I'm still getting the "prof" to look at it. C with Eb down definitely not working, so something to adjust there, I think. I didn't gather whether yours worked or not, kerioboe?

I was sceptical about the use of B to colour the G but my teacher had me on it just last week and I had to admit he was right. It proved useful in rehearsal.

Your experiments with the B key seem to validate what was said on the BBoard about the low B-C link affecting fingering for third octave (though they didn't mention Eb). The dual system seems to have the low B-C so it does rather seem to be, as you say pushpull, more of a thumbplate oboe with some conservatoire possibilities rather than the other way round.

Off to my annual appraisal (ugh!) and then oboe lesson. Hope oboe gets sorted and it's easier going than last week!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Went out with oboe prof and some friends after a concert on Friday and when I jokingly berated him for taking me to the brink of suicide last Tuesday and reminded him of the looooooong list of things he had pulled me up on, he seemed really genuinely taken aback. "But I never treat you badly", he says. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I guffawed - as did another ex-student who has been through it all before - and went quite red, bless him.

After a few more stories I realised that actually he's been treating me exactly as he liked to be treated when a student - pushed hard! So I suppose he considers me "privileged". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)