EPTA vs ISM - how to choose? Options

[BabyGrand]

Hi!

I'll apologise before I start, because I realise this subject has probably been discussed to death on the forum...but although I've read pretty much every related thread I could find, I still couldn't find a definitive / clear answer, so I decided I'd be brave and try asking for myself! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hides.gif)

Basically, I've been looking into joining either the EPTA or ISM, and was wondering which people would recommend, and why? (I did look at MU too, but I don't like the sound of it as much - plus it's the most expensive - so I've ruled it out). For anyone who has been a member of both, what would you say are the distinctives / benefits / downsides of each one? Any general advice about what I should consider when choosing will be appreciated too. Or just any general advice, if you like! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Thanks very much.

[owainsutton]

I suppose part of the answer is a question: what are you looking for? In terms of insurance, legal support and so on, they all provide it.

If that's all you need, then go with the cheapest. If there's other things you've got in mind, it'd help us if we knew! The ISM strongly push the employment rights of instrumental teachers working in schools, for instance, which is more frequently a concern for teachers of instruments other than the piano.

I can vouch for the ISM's help on both mundane membership matters and specific professional ones being reliable and very supportive. (This could be equally true of EPTA, I just wouldn't know about it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Susie]

I chose epta because I don't have the qualifications to join ISM, and I don't know 2 members to ask for a recommendation.

[Seer_Green]

I chose epta because I don't have the qualifications to join ISM, and I don't know 2 members to ask for a recommendation.

It's worth remembering that this no longer applies so far as I'm aware.

I'm a member of both - if I had to choose, it would be the ISM, but I do like the EPTA magazine, hence I carry on with that too.

[owainsutton]

I chose epta because I don't have the qualifications to join ISM, and I don't know 2 members to ask for a recommendation.

Only one needs to be a member, the other just a professional recommendation. (I think that might be a recent change, actually.)

Edit, in reponse to Seer_Green: A few years back, wasn't the requirement qualifications plus recommendations? Around the time I joined, it became qualifications or recommendations.

[Susie]

I chose epta because I don't have the qualifications to join ISM, and I don't know 2 members to ask for a recommendation.

Only one needs to be a member, the other just a professional recommendation. (I think that might be a recent change, actually.)

OK, but in fact I don't know one member who knows of my work, so I still draw a blank there.

[owainsutton]

I'm a member of both - if I had to choose, it would be the ISM, but I do like the EPTA magazine, hence I carry on with that too.

Good point, actually, the ISM doesn't actually produce any reading material of any interest for its members. I've never joined ESTA, but have seen a lot of their journals and have been very impressed with them, almost enough to fork out the subscription...

[Seer_Green]

Edit, in reponse to Seer_Green: A few years back, wasn't the requirement qualifications plus recommendations? Around the time I joined, it became qualifications or recommendations.

When I joined, you needed qualifications and two ISM members to referee you. Nowadays there are several options including qualifications alone, references alone (only one has to be an ISM member) and a fast track if you're already playing professionally. It does mean that whereas it used to be quite difficult to fulfil their joining requirements, these have been relaxed a lot.

[owainsutton]

When I joined, you needed qualifications and two ISM members to referee you.

That rings a bell...I was in a situation where I wanted to join, but didn't fit the criteria, because no colleagues were members that I knew of. We were on teachers' working conditions and so were with the NASUWT instead!

[BabyGrand]

Thanks for all the replies!

When I joined, you needed qualifications and two ISM members to referee you. Nowadays there are several options including qualifications alone, references alone (only one has to be an ISM member) and a fast track if you're already playing professionally. It does mean that whereas it used to be quite difficult to fulfil their joining requirements, these have been relaxed a lot.

Yeah - you just need a music degree, which I have. I can see how it would be off-putting for teachers without though, having to go down the referee route.

I suppose part of the answer is a question: what are you looking for? In terms of insurance, legal support and so on, they all provide it.

If that's all you need, then go with the cheapest. If there's other things you've got in mind, it'd help us if we knew!

Oops - I forgot I should say something about me! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) Well, at the moment I'm a private piano teacher, working part-time. I'm hoping to build up to full-time over the next year or two, including some work in schools/early years/community settings.

I'm definitely interested in the insurance (does anyone know how much the EPTA cover is?), professional (including tax) support and advice, and resources like contracts etc. But, as you say, both organistaions seem to offer all these! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Or would any of you suggest that one might offer better support than the other in these areas?

I think my confusion lies partly in the price difference - logic suggests that there must be something(s) major that ISM offers that EPTA doesn't, or its membership wouldn't cost so much more?? Or am I missing something here? At first glance, the only thing that looks especially helpful for me that seems to be offered just by ISM is advice on copyright.

Anyway, hope this fills in the gaps!

[Dugazon]

(I did look at MU too, but I don't like the sound of it as much - plus it's the most expensive - so I've ruled it out).

Just on a sidenote (I know you already ruled it out):

This is only true if you don't compare the benefits fully. The MU offers the by far most comprehensive insurance cover. They don't just include public liability, but instrument insurance and a plethora of other benefits (accident, maternity, cover for your relatives etc). You would find that if you took out all these covers individually, the MU are actually very cost-effective.

There's no point in comparing apples and oranges price-wise - it's really a much more comprehensive cover in terms of insurances.

[BabyGrand]

Just on a sidenote (I know you already ruled it out):

This is only true if you don't compare the benefits fully. The MU offers the by far most comprehensive insurance cover. They don't just include public liability, but instrument insurance and a plethora of other benefits (accident, maternity, cover for your relatives etc). You would find that if you took out all these covers individually, the MU are actually very cost-effective.

There's no point in comparing apples and oranges price-wise - it's really a much more comprehensive cover in terms of insurances.

Thanks, I do appreciate that - I wasn't so much ruling out because I didn't think it was worth the money, but because I can't really afford it! I know the ISM isn't much less normally, but it would be for me to start with, as I can join at the graduate rate (just ?60 in year one).

Does anyone know how the EPTA and ISM compare in terms of insurance cover?

[chraze1]

(I did look at MU too, but I don't like the sound of it as much - plus it's the most expensive - so I've ruled it out).

Just on a sidenote (I know you already ruled it out):

This is only true if you don't compare the benefits fully. The MU offers the by far most comprehensive insurance cover. They don't just include public liability, but instrument insurance and a plethora of other benefits (accident, maternity, cover for your relatives etc). You would find that if you took out all these covers individually, the MU are actually very cost-effective.

There's no point in comparing apples and oranges price-wise - it's really a much more comprehensive cover in terms of insurances.

Hi Dugazon,

I've recently contacted the MU with a view to becoming a member and they told me that Public Liability is included! I'm really worried now after reading your post as I was close to sending off the docs!, I'm going to dig out the paperwork they sent me last month and double check!
I perform every weekend with a band in different venues and also teach piano privately, so I'm looking for a body to cover me no matter where I work, which I explained to the lady I spoke with on the phone and she told me their cover does all of that!
I'm glad I've read your post tonight.

I currently have PLI but it's very limited and it's expensive, so I wouldn't mind spending slightly more for a better cover.

I'll revert back with my findings tomorrow! Thank you!

[dolcevita]

(I did look at MU too, but I don't like the sound of it as much - plus it's the most expensive - so I've ruled it out).

Just on a sidenote (I know you already ruled it out):

This is only true if you don't compare the benefits fully. The MU offers the by far most comprehensive insurance cover. They don't just include public liability, but instrument insurance and a plethora of other benefits (accident, maternity, cover for your relatives etc). You would find that if you took out all these covers individually, the MU are actually very cost-effective.

There's no point in comparing apples and oranges price-wise - it's really a much more comprehensive cover in terms of insurances.

Hi Dugazon,

I've recently contacted the MU with a view to becoming a member and they told me that Public Liability is included! I'm really worried now after reading your post as I was close to sending off the docs!, I'm going to dig out the paperwork they sent me last month and double check!
I perform every weekend with a band in different venues and also teach piano privately, so I'm looking for a body to cover me no matter where I work, which I explained to the lady I spoke with on the phone and she told me their cover does all of that!
I'm glad I've read your post tonight.

I currently have PLI but it's very limited and it's expensive, so I wouldn't mind spending slightly more for a better cover.

I'll revert back with my findings tomorrow! Thank you!

Chraze, I think you've misread Dugazon's post. (S)he said Mu doesn't just include public liability. So they do provide public liability cover and lots more besides.
Or have I misunderstood this thread??

[Dugazon]

Hi chraze1,
Don't panic, the MU cover DOES include public liability. I used "don't just" and "but" as in "not only" and "but also", not as in "exclude". My bad...

The information the lady has given you was completely correct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)