Intermediate Violin Intonation?, grade 5-6 Options

[delicato]

Hmmmm back to intonation! I think that doing the aural is really important for good intonation. I am sure, if they failed you for bad intonation - then there may be a lot more fails in exam. I think you just need to work on getting it as best as you can ---- no good worrying about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

Hmm... I don't think I agree. Being able to sing back a bassline and identify cadences seems more complicated than working on intonation, which is really about intervals.

You don't have to agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)
I was not comparing singing back cadences or singing basslines with intonation! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
Perhaps reread what i said.
I said: i think that doing aural is really important for good intonation. And i stand by that. It has certainly helped me with intonation. So there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[celloml]

AuroraViolin, I got 27/30 on Beethovan's Minuet in G for my grade 4 exam in March. Besides other nice things the examiner said, she mentioned that there were "minor slips in intonation" ...

Intonation not mentioned specifically in any other part of the exam mark sheet... which was surprising to me. I thought I was a teeny bit off quite a few times!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Well...

She was a violinist by the way

[jessy]

Intonation not mentioned specifically in any other part of the exam mark sheet... which was surprising to me. I thought I was a teeny bit off quite a few times!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Well...

She was a violinist by the way

Exactly! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[jojo]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

[delicato]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

I think the road to it is painful for a lot of us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[lilly763]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

Well, I've played viola for more than seven years and I still haven't gotten a handle on it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[jojo]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

Well, I've played viola for more than seven years and I still haven't gotten a handle on it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

it is much better now, it is so nice when I go to lesson and my teacher no longer stops me at every other note anymore but rather stops me at every 5 bars or once in a line or two (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

[delicato]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

Well, I've played viola for more than seven years and I still haven't gotten a handle on it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

it is much better now, it is so nice when I go to lesson and my teacher no longer stops me at every other note anymore but rather stops me at every 5 bars or once in a line or two (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I want a pair of new ears for christmas, some like teachers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Then i would de happy happy happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tassimo]

I want a pair of new ears for christmas, some like teachers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Then i would de happy happy happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Me too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Floss]

I don't think it's something you should ignore - if you know it's not right, I think you should work to make it right. That does, of course, take quite a lot of time and patience, but it does come with time and effort.

[AmandaL]

Ok, back to the tuner I go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Arrgghhhh! Tuning is achieved with the ears and the hand, not your eyes. A tuner has its place, but to be trying to eyeball a flickering light while playing is not the right place to use it.

You should be developing your ear to a good sense of relative pitch - ie. the audible distance between each note. To be frank, a digital tuner will always out-do the human ear anyway. It is impossible to play every note so that it is absolutely spot on the 'green light'.

By having your attention diverted with a light, you are not fully listening or concentrating on your playing or intonation. Sometimes it is quite correct to have notes slightly flatter of flat or sharper of sharp - depending on the key and mood of the piece. Additionally, when you play with a piano you are having to tune your notes to fit the keyboard tuning of equal temperament, which are not pure intervals.

It is absolutely vital you use your ears in combination with micro sized corrections of the fingertips to tune your notes. No more tuning with your eyes please!

[Rosie91]

I think I have ONLY JUST started to 'crack' intonation just lately in the past 3 months

AFTER 4 LONG YEARS OF VIOLIN LESSONS!!!!!

that does not mean it's 'perfect' but it means I am doing 'ok' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

the road to it was 'painful' (my teacher stopping me at every other note saying 'fix it fix it fix it'!!!)

You're getting there much more quickly than I am, then, Jo! Happily, I do feel like I've FINALLY been making headway recently. It may reassure you to hear that I got a grade 8 distinction with far-from-perfect intonation, but I think that just shows that the exam system is somewhat flawed, or that people's expectations of what it takes to be a 'grade 8 distinction player' are very different from the reality.

There's a quote from (I think) the pianist Alicia de Larrocha (I've tried to google it but without success) where she likens practising to trying to get coca-cola out of a temperamental vending machine. Every day you put your money (hard work/time) in, but nothing comes out, until eventually, one day, out comes the coca-cola (results). I can really identify with that when it comes to intonation, I worked hard at it for several years without noticing any difference in the results, and consequently I came quite close to giving up.

Fixing intonation after you've played the note is good for training your ears but ultimately you need to be able to hit the right notes first time, and that doesn't come easily. Imagine practising darts and going up to the board to move the dart if you didn't hit a bullseye - it wouldn't help you to do it better next time and would obviously be completely ridiculous! Moving a note to get it right certainly isn't as much of a waste of time as that would be, but you get the idea.

Some general pointers:

*sing all your pieces and learn relative sol-fa. It makes everything so much clearer, even 'simple' things like arpeggios that you think you know the sound of.

*play Gs, Ds, As and Es in tune with the open strings - at first you can do this by double-stopping, but eventually you'll learn to hear how the sound quality improves when a note resonates with the open strings. Exercise no. 257 from Simon Fischer's 'Basics' is good for this.

*It might seem obvious, but where the same note occurs repeatedly, or where there are notes an octave apart, they must all be in tune with each other. For example, you can practise an A major arpeggio with the As loud and the other notes quiet, to make sure the As are all in tune with the open A and with one another. Repeat for C sharp and E.

*If you're having trouble with a shift, put it into contexts other than the piece from which it comes, and while you're at it, you may as well practise that same shift on the other strings. For example, there's a shift in something I'm working on from G in 1st position on the D string to B in 4th position which had been inexplicably unreliably for far too long! Since yesterday I've been practising G major and e minor arpeggios using that fingering and it's now sorted - can't believe I didn't do it earlier.

*http://violinmasterclass.com/intonation_qt.php?video=int_exer1&sctn=Exercises
this is very useful in small doses (it may give you some nasty surprises!)

*practise left-hand pizzicato, just for 1-2 minutes a day. It makes your LH fingers so much more nimble!

*Exercise 262 from Basics is brilliant - you probably don't need to go all the way up the strings yet though.

[Organistin]

<SNIP>

Excellent post from Rosie

[celloml]

this is a great thread!

I've heard some violinists say that intonation on the cello is more forgiving and less critical than on violin. I have yet to be convinced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Violin Hero]

this is a great thread!

I've heard some violinists say that intonation on the cello is more forgiving and less critical than on violin. I have yet to be convinced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Surely dodgy intonation is just as noticeable on a cello?