Village Choir Tips, They can't sing minor thirds... Options

[AnnC]

Remind them of playground taunts - nah nah nah nah nah!

[stetenorve]

As my cuckoo clock has just sounded (it being 10.30pm and all that) I realised I was talking tosh last night. (What's new? cries half the assembled forumites!).

It sounds A flat, then F. That's what I meant to type last evening, but a couple of generous G&Ts got in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[BerkshireMum]

It's very, very common for choirs to go flat during unaccompanied singing. It may sound odd, but you should remind your singers that they need to aim for bigger intervals when going up in pitch and smaller intervals when coming down in pitch. Untrained singers don't keep the tonic in mind, so have no reference point for tuning.

Let them sing a scale up and down, asking them to think of tall steps going up and narrow steps coming down. This should help them stay in tune - check how they've done when they reach the bottom of the scale by playing the tonic for them. Do this a few times at the start of the rehearsal until they manage to stay in tune, but be prepared to keep reminding them when you hear them go flat.

The most important part for keeping the tuning right is the bass. If you can get the basses to keep the pitch up, it will push the others up too. Conversely, if the basses go flat, it's very hard for the upper parts to sing in tune.

[Czerny]

As my cuckoo clock has just sounded (it being 10.30pm and all that) I realised I was talking tosh last night. (What's new? cries half the assembled forumites!).

It sounds A flat, then F. That's what I meant to type last evening, but a couple of generous G&Ts got in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

So the question has to be, could you still find the tonic by the end of the evening?

[AnnC]

As my cuckoo clock has just sounded (it being 10.30pm and all that) I realised I was talking tosh last night. (What's new? cries half the assembled forumites!).

It sounds A flat, then F. That's what I meant to type last evening, but a couple of generous G&Ts got in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

So the question has to be, could you still find the tonic by the end of the evening?

Or was the gin dominant?

[violincjj]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[vectistim]

The most important part for keeping the tuning right is the bass. If you can get the basses to keep the pitch up, it will push the others up too. Conversely, if the basses go flat, it's very hard for the upper parts to sing in tune.

On behalf of basses everywhere: The most important part for keeping the tuning right is the tune. If you can get the sopranos to keep the pitch up, it will keep the others up too. Conversely, if the sopranos push the tune down, it's very hard for the lower parts to sing in tune.

OK, to be fair I'd say its equally important to keep both outer parts in tune.

[Organistin]

The most important part for keeping the tuning right is the bass. If you can get the basses to keep the pitch up, it will push the others up too. Conversely, if the basses go flat, it's very hard for the upper parts to sing in tune.

On behalf of basses everywhere: The most important part for keeping the tuning right is the tune. If you can get the sopranos to keep the pitch up, it will keep the others up too. Conversely, if the sopranos push the tune down, it's very hard for the lower parts to sing in tune.

OK, to be fair I'd say its equally important to keep both outer parts in tune.

In my choir it is definitely the sopranos who drop. When the basses sing a line by themselves they are still in tune at the end. The sopranos are out after a couple of bars.

[jod]

wearing my soprano hat here, the number of times I was accused of not blending when I was trying to pull the tuning back... well if I had a pound for each time I'd be very wealthy.

The toruble comes from the sopranos and the basses in the main. Sopranos hit their head range passagio between Eb and F# ( depending on the soprano) just where they are being asked to leap onto notes and not surprisingly they end up flat. Similiarly the Basses leap down onto their true Chest register at the point the music hits another passaggio, and the result is the notes are off. As altos and tenors normally sing more static music, faults in their technique are not so obvious.

The trick is to be aware that this is likely to happen in the first place. Until things go sharp, aim to keep upward moving intervals on the large side, particularly if they are major, perfect or augmented, and downward intervals on the smaller side especially if they are diminished, minor, or perfect. Also encourageing singers to use their ears is no bad thing, especially as far as intonation is concerned.

Oh and every good Mahler fan will know that Austrian Cuckoos sing a Perfect Fourth. Just listen to the first movement of the 1st symphony if you have any doubt.

[thouston]

Do you have cuckoos in Austria? Get the choir to imitate them.
http://www.honeyguide.co.uk/minorthird.htm
(Read on about the Beethoven)

You could always nip over to Switzerland and borrow a clock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

There's a cuckoo somewhere in the forest behind my house and I'm going to wring its neck if it doesn't shut up...
but maybe I could take it to the rehearsal on Monday

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I wouldn't use cuckoos as inspiration for a minor third - the birds around here are capable of producing anything from a scant major second to a good major third - and never mind the business about them changing their song at different seasons - I have heard the whole range within a single day.

Last year there was one little blighter who sat right outside our bedroom window at stupid o'clock in the morning shouting CUCKOO through the window (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . He was one of the major second brigade, whereas those I heard later in the day at work tended to cuck in minor or major thirds.

I never managed to disentangle whether they started out with the smaller intervals early in the morning, winding it up to wider ones during the day, or whether different birds favoured different intervals. Or whether (given that work is close to home and it's just about feasible) the same bird was following me about trying to drive me - er - cuckoo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) .

Luckily the cuckoo population this year have chosen shouting spots that are a bit further from the house so I haven't had my early morning interval training this year (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Sorry - that wasn't very helpful for thinking about your choir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
If you think that the difficulty is to do with it being an unfamiliar sound for them, then maybe a bit of warming up every week on variations of minor thirds might get it into their heads a bit better?

[Dulcet]

Do you have cuckoos in Austria? Get the choir to imitate them.
http://www.honeyguide.co.uk/minorthird.htm
(Read on about the Beethoven)

You could always nip over to Switzerland and borrow a clock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

There's a cuckoo somewhere in the forest behind my house and I'm going to wring its neck if it doesn't shut up...
but maybe I could take it to the rehearsal on Monday

I thought cuckoos sang different intervals according to the time of year - from minor third to perfect fourth - but I can't remember where I got it from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Bourdon16 - shouldn't that be Bb then F? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I wouldn't use cuckoos as inspiration for a minor third - the birds around here are capable of producing anything from a scant major second to a good major third - and never mind the business about them changing their song at different seasons - I have heard the whole range within a single day.

Last year there was one little blighter who sat right outside our bedroom window at stupid o'clock in the morning shouting CUCKOO through the window (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . He was one of the major second brigade, whereas those I heard later in the day at work tended to cuck in minor or major thirds.

I never managed to disentangle whether they started out with the smaller intervals early in the morning, winding it up to wider ones during the day, or whether different birds favoured different intervals. Or whether (given that work is close to home and it's just about feasible) the same bird was following me about trying to drive me - er - cuckoo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) .

Luckily the cuckoo population this year have chosen shouting spots that are a bit further from the house so I haven't had my early morning interval training this year (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Sorry - that wasn't very helpful for thinking about your choir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
If you think that the difficulty is to do with it being an unfamiliar sound for them, then maybe a bit of warming up every week on variations of minor thirds might get it into their heads a bit better?

The birds or the choir? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(Wodehouse-o-phile alert!)
Do they sing "Cuckoo" or "Wuckoo"?

[stetenorve]

... As altos and tenors normally sing more static music, faults in their technique are not so obvious.

But tenors have no faults in their technique. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fatissimo]

As altos and tenors normally sing more static music, faults in their technique are not so obvious.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yay.gif)

[BerkshireMum]

... As altos and tenors normally sing more static music, faults in their technique are not so obvious.

But tenors have no faults in their technique. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) What a whopper! Don't blame me when your nose grows! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[thouston]

...
Last year there was one little blighter who sat right outside our bedroom window at stupid o'clock in the morning shouting CUCKOO through the window (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) .
...

The birds or the choir? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(Wodehouse-o-phile alert!)
Do they sing "Cuckoo" or "Wuckoo"?

At that hour of the morning actually I reckon that he was saying WAKEUP...WAKEUP...WAKEUP... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)