Should You Tell A Child If Their Musical Ability Is Limited... ? Options

[singerpianist]

Yep I agree with everyone else - don't tell her.

I was doing work experience at my old primary school about a month ago, and they were doing a school play. One of the girls (about age 10) was singing a solo, and really enjoyed singing it. And then the people in her class and her 'friends' decided to tell her that she couldn't sing and that she had a horrible voice, when in fact she was okay at singing and was having to sing unaccompanied so any wrong notes were completely acceptable. This girl ended up in tears and didn't want to be in the play anymore. In the end she was persuaded to do it, but you could tell she was uncomfortable in doing it now. It was quite sad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Obviously I haven't heard your friend's daughter sing, but she seems dedicated enough that she will make improvements with her singing - given the chance and the encouragement - if she has lessons, or even just has her voice matures.

[sbhoa]

I would think that at 8 and with no musical training nobody is in a positon to say anything about her musical ability. And does anybody know how well or otherwise the childs peers actually sing? Maybe they are just good at imitating the latest pop idol?

[jod]

If this child isn't exactly going to make a career out of their singing, it is fair to tell them at some point, but not at 8.

I was told I wouldn't not because I couldn't sing but because concert singers were meant to be built like Monserraat Cabille or Joan Sutherland and not be 4' 11'' and weigh under 9 stone.

At 8 this girl needs to find someone who can nurture her love and bring her on. She may proove mum and friends wrong. A way into lessons may be, "well my darling, you could always sing a little better, and we're going to help you by getting you lessons." A good teacher could then have you eating your words. A good teacher would also boost her self esteem and prevent her from damaging her voice whilst she is young.

I have a pupil who I initally taught singing for aural work to, now he's doing his Grade 1, he just needed someone else to point out where he was going wrong, then suddenly a wonderful treble voice was revealed.

This girl may be the ugly-duckling sound-a-like at present, but given time could turn into a swan. 8 is too young to write someone off. And 8 year old kids can be really mean in the playground. Trust me I'm mother to an 8 year old; I pick uo the pieces regularly.

[Violinia]

In one of the schools I work in, a violin pupil has a very good singing voice (in my opinion) yet is always being told by her peers that she can't sing. Perhaps they're just jealous? Luckily they don't manage to dent her confidence.

[mikeyc]

I'm asking this on behalf of a friend...

She is concerned because her eight-year-old daughter is getting teased at school because - although she loves singing - her friends say she hasn't got a very good singing voice. Her mum is inclined to agree and says she just doesn't know what to say every time her daughter says ' I can sing well can't mum?' Next time her daughter asks, my friend is seriously thinking of saying 'well it's not your best point' or something similar, because she thinks her daughter could fall harder later on if she doesn't find out the truth now. I've advised her not to, as I think this could be quite damaging.

I think that, at 8 years old, her daughter is far too young to be written off in terms of her musical ability. I have advised her to encourage her daughter's enjoyment of music, maybe even looking into getting her a few singing lessons or taking up a musical instrument. Without telling her she is the next Katherine Jenkins of course as that could set up unrealistic expectations! I've suggested that the next time her daughter asks her she says something like 'well I'm no expert, but it sounds okay/pretty good to me'...

Just wondered what others thought...

I'm only 12. I have been told I can sing. I have sung solo when I was 8, but not since because I am quite shy of singing in public. However, I love to sing by myself. When the TV adverts come on that sort of thing. I'm quite musical so I think it's part of that. I sing to myself at school when writing. But when I was 8 if someone had told me I can't sing like I'm not that good at it, I would have been too upset to try again. I think it is fun to sing and enjoy what you're doing even if you are not that good. Anyway, why can't you improve? No one starts off good at everything. You improve as you learn. No one tells anyone they're no good at anything, they just encourage them. I'm no good whatsoever at art. I know that. But if my teacher didn't encourage me to try a bit harder, I'd end up crying all lesson over what I can't do. So I would say no, never tell anyone they're not good at anything. Let them enjoy what they're doing it while it is fun.

[Miss Ross]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I agree with what everyone else has said - please don't let her say anything along those lines to her daughter. When I was 9 I was told I was hopeless at all things musical and was given a tambourine to play in the school concert. I remember crying at the time, as everyone else was allowed to play xylophone or recorder, and I had been teaching myself the recorder in secret but was too scared to tell the music teacher. It wasn't until after the concert, when my parents were congratulated on my 'acute sense of rhythm' that various people realised that they had been wrong to push me aside. And it's all thanks to that tambourine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif).

What do 8 year old school 'friends' know about talent? Most likely, not much. If your friend's daughter has even a slight sense of rhythm and can carry a tune reasonably well, I don't see why she shouldn't be encouraged. Surely everyone deserves a chance?

[anacrusis]

It'd be interesting to know what the child was trying to sing too - kids growing up hearing a lot of pop often aspire to a different style of singing, with flatter intervals, melodies within a smaller range, and sometimes a fair amount of strain to their voices - I can imagine that it might be difficult to use that as a way of learning voice control...

There is still the dilemma of what happens if the child stays less able to sing than her peers, and grows up thinking she's got a stunning voice when she hasn't - and then finds out the truth. It would be incredibly damaging to tell her she can't sing, but her mum will indeed have to find a realistic half-way position, perhaps saying that her daughter's voice just needs to do a bit more growing up, or suggesting that it will improve with a bit of practice, and how about having a bit of a sing around the house (preferably with some vibrato- and belt-free examples to copy!)?

It can be just as damaging to find that people who love you have been lying for years as it is to be told something unpleasant about oneself in such a way that implies there is no possibility of remedying it.

[sarah-flute]

If your friend's daughter has even a slight sense of rhythm and can carry a tune reasonably well

...or even if she hasn't and can't - after all, she is only 8! It doesn't mean she always won't have or won't be able to! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think criticism of a singing voice, too, is particularly bad because singing is so personal - no instrument to blame...

[violincjj]

This makes me think about the poster who said on another thread a few days ago that young children are simple beings; well actually no, they're not - and what happens when they're that age can and often does colour the rest of their life. I still feel very envious of people who can express themselves beautifully and confidently through dance.

That would be me...but actually I didn't say that at all! I said....

(Not trying to be funny, small kids (under 7 say) are not complicated mostly. If she was a dog that barked at the wrong time then she'd spend a lot of time at doggie-training classes in the sin bin behind the curtain...I just think trying to overanalyze small kids is a mistake. Sticking with action and consequence is good.)


So I don't agree with your opinion. Your generalities do not constitute a persuasive argument in my opinion.

BUT I do agree that no-one should tell a child if their musical ability is limited!

[jod]

It can be just as damaging to find that people who love you have been lying for years as it is to be told something unpleasant about oneself in such a way that implies there is no possibility of remedying it.

Exactly which is why if it does need improvement for basic things a teacher would help. Underneath a host of vocal problems there can be a stunning voice trying to get out.

However. as I said 8 year olds are cruel, but so are decitful adults if she really is bad but enjoys her singing then something needs to be done to unlock the voice she clearly wants.

I'm not advocating telling her she can't, just enabling her to do. As she clearly gets so much pleasure out of music then she has some potential.

[Violinia]

This makes me think about the poster who said on another thread a few days ago that young children are simple beings; well actually no, they're not - and what happens when they're that age can and often does colour the rest of their life. I still feel very envious of people who can express themselves beautifully and confidently through dance.

That would be me...but actually I didn't say that at all! I said....

(Not trying to be funny, small kids (under 7 say) are not complicated mostly. If she was a dog that barked at the wrong time then she'd spend a lot of time at doggie-training classes in the sin bin behind the curtain...I just think trying to overanalyze small kids is a mistake. Sticking with action and consequence is good.)


So I don't agree with your opinion. Your generalities do not constitute a persuasive argument in my opinion.

'simple beings', 'not complicated' - there's not a world of difference there. Children don't generally cry out of habit, they cry because something's wrong. I disagreed with you in that instance because I felt and still feel that training a child out of repeated crying in a 'Pavlovian' sort of way, the way you'd train a dog, is unlikely to be the best way forward for the simple reason stated above: children don't generally cry repeatedly out of habit. They only usually do that if a parent, say, gives in to crying for sweets or something like that.

The fact is, teaching your own children is generally fraught with problems, and crying is one of the responses other posters here reported. I somehow doubt training parent-taught children out of crying is likely to solve the problem - more like bury it deeper so it'll only surface later on with some other manifestation like a hatred of music. and being taught music.

Anyway, children and dogs don't really have that much in common, and as a parent I thought you would have known that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Miss Ross]

If your friend's daughter has even a slight sense of rhythm and can carry a tune reasonably well

...or even if she hasn't and can't - after all, she is only 8! It doesn't mean she always won't have or won't be able to! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Quite right, Sarah. Sorry, I should have considered that point a little more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[A.U.K]

I suspect that there are a few people here (adult learners) who were told that they couldn't do this or that or that they didn't have the talent for something yet here they all are, playing for the sheer joy of playing and no doubt loving everysecond of it...good for them...but I wonder how many are not here for those very same reasons...confidence crushed, dreams demolished by the thoughtless actions of either their peers or even more sadly their parents...

This little girl should not be told anything that wil deter her from TRYING...sure she may not make an Opera singer...but so long as she enjoys it and gets something from it she should be encouraged and helped...Lessons would be great, lets hope the mother sends her for some as soon as possible, her confidence will take leaps and bounds and that can't be a bad thing.

Does it matter that she isn't the greatest 8 year old singer....not a jot...with a little care an attention she just might surprise everyone...

Good luck..

Kindest regards

Andrew

[Dulciana]

Does it matter that she isn't the greatest 8 year old singer....not a jot...with a little care an attention she just might surprise everyone...

True! Give me a pupil, any day, who is enthusiastic and willing to keep trying, rather than one who has arrogant inate abilty that he/she doesn't feel the need to develop.

[tonyteech]

I teach mostly adults - singers - pianists and guitarists - always the same story ' I have always wanted to play sing or whatever but I was told by my parents /teacher that I was no good. Took me years to get up the courage to come for lessons '

My father was a famous local popular singer in the North West area - so was his brother - they were both jealous of each other and would not stay in the same room if one of them sang My father hated the fact that I had a professional career and was openly jealous. He was very destructively critical of me when I started singing but me being the arrogant sod I am I carried on regardless. For people with lesser determination adults and children it can be devastating I think proper lessons are in order