Yay!, of course we could have told him... Options

[maggiemay]

"The music the machine plays is dull and uninteresting, and the tin-like sound is just dreadful" - Vicar Brian Stevens rues the replacement of the crematorium organist with a karaoke machine.

Tony Edwards has been playing sombre tunes at cremations for 13 years, but now the crematorium has decided that a Wesley Music System is a better option. Now Mr Edwards is only available as a paid-for extra.
More details (Daily Mail)

(from the bbc news site)

[Swell Box]

No doubt there was a bean counter involved somewhere in this decision? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

So do family members now have to put £1 in a slot to get their chosen music played at a loved one's funeral, or does the music have to be booked on-line and in advance? I daresay booking on line is a cheaper option as there are usually penalties for paying on the day at the airport crematorium. They will be charging to book seats next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but is nothing above our 'must make a profit at all costs' culture? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

SB

[Barry Williams]

It is often worse than this.

Recently, one of my professional colleagues asked me if I would play the organ for her father in law's funeral service. I readily agreed, only to be told that there was no organ at Harlow Crematorium.

The family therefore took along CDs of the accompaniments of the three hymns to be sung. The first hymn was played fine. For the second one the Crematorium staff did not play the accompaniment only version the family had provided, but played a choir singing different words to those in the service paper. The service paper had Bunyan's 'Who would true valour see' whereas the Crematorium staff played some cathedral choir singing Percy Dearmer's rather clumsy paraphrase, 'He who would valiant be' which the deceased and the family specifically did not want. The family had to stand listening. They could not join in because the words were different. The Crematorium staff then refused to play the third CD because it had been down loaded from the Internet. The family had paid for the download and had the receipt. The Crematorium staff said that was irrelevant. It was not their policy to play downloaded items in case it corrupted their CD player. Had I known of this I would have borrowed a portable keyboard and played it all myself.

Last January I played the organ for the funeral service of my wife's cousin at Havant Crematorium. The previous funeral had a bagpiper. This wretched man walked up and down outside the chapel playing loudly (and in my opinion offensively) throughout our service, so that it was almost impossible to sing the hymns the deceased had carefully chosen for his own service. It was appalling. The Crematorium then had the cheek to charge £28 for the organist. Of course, I had charged nothing for playing. I only got to know of this because I was Executor of the Will and thus saw the funeral bill. (You can imagine the correspondence that ensued!)

For my mother's funeral in 1989 the organist at Exeter Crematorium completely ignored the specific requests for music and merely churned out what seemed to be a meandering improvisation of very poor quality and riddled with musical infelicities. It was most regrettable as my mother was a very fine pianist and greatly appreciated music, as did the congregation, including my father, my wife and me. Had we known the playing was likely to be that atrocious we would have asked one of the organists from Exeter Cathedral to come and do the job properly.

At one time they had an organist at Croydon Crematorium, (his name is now well known in certain music circles,) who was notorious for playing unsuitable and unhelpful music. It was even mentioned at Clergy Chapter meetings. Eventually he was asked to leave. He was replaced with a more mature musician who took immense trouble in every detail to help families have the music they wanted. It was a matter of frequent comment that his music was invariably helpful and always sensitively performed. Families appreciated the time he took in preparation. Clergy and funeral directors engaged his musical skills to considerable effect.

Unfortunately, the bad events are not isolated incidents. The attitude of Crematorium staff often seems to lack care and compassion. Happily, there are still some places where great care is taken, but they are fewer these days.

Barry Williams

[Swell Box]

Unfortunately, the bad events are not isolated incidents.

No, they're not, but sadly, most of the people who attend services at crematoria don't know any better, so it will only be one in fifty or so families who find the running of things so unhelpful or offensive that they complain. Frankly, most of these places are run like production lines, with tightly controlled schedules and budgets, so the deceased and their friends and family are often treated with as much reverence as a mass produced pizza. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

As an example, we attended a family funeral in Newcastle a year or so ago, which happened to be held immediately after, and in the same chapel as the funeral of a young girl who had died in an event which attracted a lot of publicity. We arrived at the crematorium in good time, but were turned away because of the crowds, and ominously, only Clergy were allowed in. In fact the place was absolute bedlam, and as you would expect, there were many hundreds of people who had turned up to pay their respects, together with quite a few members of the press.

However, the Crematorium had only allowed the standard 20 minute slot, (I don't think they will allow two slots even if you pay for them), so by the time our party could get into the chapel the service had already started, and when the end of the service came we were shepherded out of a side door because the next party was already being ushered in through the back door. How awful is that?

It was appalling. The Crematorium then had the cheek to charge £28 for the organist.

This is quite normal, and not just at crematoria. The Organist is probably paid a contract rate per funeral, and that contract may stipulate that he or she will be paid regardless of who actually plays. I suppose from their point of view they would make a slim living if too many families provided their own organist, and there is not a great deal else they could do in the time.

Indeed, a friend's daughter is getting married later this year, and we understand that the Organist at their church has negotiated a similar contract with his PCC. However, they specifically didn’t want him to play for the wedding for a number of reasons, (mainly his lack of playing ability), but they have been told that they will still have to pay £140, which is the Organists agreed rate for weddings with a video.

SB

[mrbouffant]

Indeed, a friend's daughter is getting married later this year, and we understand that the Organist at their church has negotiated a similar contract with his PCC. However, they specifically didn’t want him to play for the wedding for a number of reasons, (mainly his lack of playing ability), but they have been told that they will still have to pay £140, which is the Organists agreed rate for weddings with a video.

Quite right too.
btw, the contract is typically with the incumbent, not the PCC, as I understand it.

[Swell Box]

Indeed, a friend's daughter is getting married later this year, and we understand that the Organist at their church has negotiated a similar contract with his PCC. However, they specifically didn’t want him to play for the wedding for a number of reasons, (mainly his lack of playing ability), but they have been told that they will still have to pay £140, which is the Organists agreed rate for weddings with a video.

Quite right too.
btw, the contract is typically with the incumbent, not the PCC, as I understand it.

Now you mention it I think that is correct, although Im not sure if it still applies in enlarged parishes with several churches and clergy?

SB

[Vox Humana]

The Crematorium then had the cheek to charge £28 for the organist.

Why is this a cheek though? I understood from your (excellent) book that the incumbent organist is still entitled to his/her fee if another organist is brought in for occasions such as these.

[Barry Williams]

Indeed, a friend's daughter is getting married later this year, and we understand that the Organist at their church has negotiated a similar contract with his PCC. However, they specifically didn’t want him to play for the wedding for a number of reasons, (mainly his lack of playing ability), but they have been told that they will still have to pay £140, which is the Organists agreed rate for weddings with a video.

Quite right too.
btw, the contract is typically with the incumbent, not the PCC, as I understand it.

In the Church of England, excepting cathedrals and similar places, the employer is the incumbent jointly with the PCC. There is case law on this from 2008 - a ruling of an Employment Tribunal. There is no difference with group parishes and District Church Councils have no standing in this, only Parochial Church Councils.

There is no doubt whatsoever that virtually all organists are employees. This is far more satisfactory for the organist. Being self-employed brings no tax advantage in terms of travelling expenses, as home to church is not deductible even under Schedule D, when there is a permanent place of work. (I know; I took the test cases to court and won for HMRC.)

A Specimen Contract of Employment for Organists is downloadable from our Website free :http://www.organistpublications.co.uk

I could write reams on this subject, but usually, in a parish church, the appointed organist is entitled to the fee, whether or not they play. It may not be the same in a Crematorium. However, charging when no-one else played and the resident organist did not get the fee was extremely naughty. Perhaps they were unlucky insofar as the chap who played for the funeral was both an organist and a barrister!

Barry Williams

[Vox Humana]

the resident organist did not get the fee

Then that is very different.

[Holz Gedeckt]

Indeed, a friend's daughter is getting married later this year, and we understand that the Organist at their church has negotiated a similar contract with his PCC. However, they specifically didn’t want him to play for the wedding for a number of reasons, (mainly his lack of playing ability), but they have been told that they will still have to pay £140, which is the Organists agreed rate for weddings with a video.

Quite right too.

But is it necessarily morally correct? Ok if the organist is a decent performer, and able to play well the standard fayre requested at weddings. However, what about as in this case when his playing skills leave a lot to be desired?

I know of an organist who has the monopoly at two picturesque country churches which are frequently used for weddings. His fee was around £140 a few years ago, so has probably increased now. The fellow couldn't get through the Bridal Chorus from Lohengrin without a fistful of wrong notes, yet has the monopoly on weddings unless the 'happy couple' are prepared to pay him to stay away, and to pay extra in order to employ a decent organist to take his place. Is it fair that they have to pay him for his absence, or otherwise put up with him mangling the music at their wedding? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Vox Humana]

Is it fair that they have to pay him for his absence, or otherwise put up with him mangling the music at their wedding? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Interesting point. If I buy a product from a shop and it is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold, I can demand redress. If you pay an electrician, say, to do a job and it is not done properly, again you have rights. But what if you pay for an organist and don't get a decent standard of performance? As far as I'm aware you just have to put up with it. Anyway, how would you draw the line between what is acceptable and unacceptable?

[Swell Box]

Once again, I suspect the main problem is that most people simply don't know any better, so the situation continues unresolved. I also know from my own experience that many PCCs are afraid to raise concerns about playing in case the organist should down tools and walk out.

In the case I mentioned, the organist is a very good Jazz musician - which is exactly where the problem lies; he reads the first few bars of the Wedding March or whatever and simply wings it thereafter. I doubt that most people would notice but the young lady who is getting married has Grade 8 piano and has played the organ herself on accasions, so she knows how it should sound.

As an aside; in the case of an enlarged Parish with several churches, would our learned friend consider it reasonable for the Organist to be asked by the Team Rector to play at another church in the same parish from time to time, or could he reasonably stipulate that he will only play at the church where he was originally engaged (even though his Contract does not specify the church concerned)?

SB

[guilmant]

I know of an organist who has the monopoly at two picturesque country churches which are frequently used for weddings. His fee was around £140 a few years ago, so has probably increased now. The fellow couldn't get through the Bridal Chorus from Lohengrin without a fistful of wrong notes, yet has the monopoly on weddings unless the 'happy couple' are prepared to pay him to stay away, and to pay extra in order to employ a decent organist to take his place. Is it fair that they have to pay him for his absence, or otherwise put up with him mangling the music at their wedding? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Yes, I would say this is unfair. If the person is not capable of playing what is desired, then perhaps, given that they are paying the fee, maybe their attendance should be compulsory. Perhaps they could learn a thing or two!

[Swell Box]

Anyway, how would you draw the line between what is acceptable and unacceptable?

How indeed? The standard of playing in many churches is lamentable, but if there is nobody else willing and able to play any better then what can anyone do?

We also need to recognise that many people, especially older people, play the organ out of the goodness of their hearts as a way of helping their church, and no matter how badly they play, taking that away from them can be very hurtful.

Many of these people will gladly vacate the organ stool for a Sunday morning or two, but there is always the danger that you will find yourself with a regular job!

SB

[Holz Gedeckt]

I also know from my own experience that many PCCs are afraid to raise concerns about playing in case the organist should down tools and walk out.

Yes, I understand from the incumbent of the churches in the case that I mentioned, that this was indeed the situation at his two churches where this 'orrible organist served. However, the incumbent himself was understandably quite keen about the possibility of this particular organist downing tools and walking out....