Articulation, Phrasing And Pedalling, Any tips anyone? :) Options

[Wobby]

Well, the title sort of explains it all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The main problem I have with general pieces is that I can never quite get phrasing/articulation in the piece (in fact, this seems to be the main comment with all my pieces, as well as sight-reading, in exams I have taken). Most of the time, I always make a piece sound as if it is phrased every bar or it is just the same phrase throughout the whole piece.

What actually is the correct way to phrase exactly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I always interpret phrasing to mean that you break at the end of each phrase and emphasis the beginning of each phrase, but it ends up just making the piece sound jerky, so this can't be right... any help anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The other main point, is method of pedalling: I've noticed that my piano seems to make notes echo way more than they should in comparison to other pianos, and the only way to stop this is by half-pedalling every half bar. However, this makes a piece sound too, well, systematic and unphrased (and it just sounds wrong because of the half-pedal thing). Putting the left pedal (by this I mean to say the one that makes notes sound dimmer) in combination with the right pedal (by this I mean the one that suspends notes), although removes the echo and volume from the pedalling, it also removes the clarity of the notes as well, which is another problem. Any ideas on what can be done here too please? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~Wobby~

[IrisH - LoonY]

Sounds like something for SteveHopwood or YetAnotherPianist!

IrisH - LoonY

[Fen]

I always interpret phrasing to mean that you break at the end of each phrase and emphasis the beginning of each phrase, but it ends up just making the piece sound jerky, so this can't be right... any help anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Think of a spoken phrase - how do we shape a sentence when we want to sound angry, or questioning, or mysterious? The emphasis is not always at the beginning, and the "shape" isn't always a straight line...

[Edwardo]

Well, the title sort of explains it all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The main problem I have with general pieces is that I can never quite get phrasing/articulation in the piece (in fact, this seems to be the main comment with all my pieces, as well as sight-reading, in exams I have taken). Most of the time, I always make a piece sound as if it is phrased every bar or it is just the same phrase throughout the whole piece.

What actually is the correct way to phrase exactly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I always interpret phrasing to mean that you break at the end of each phrase and emphasis the beginning of each phrase, but it ends up just making the piece sound jerky, so this can't be right... any help anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The other main point, is method of pedalling: I've noticed that my piano seems to make notes echo way more than they should in comparison to other pianos, and the only way to stop this is by half-pedalling every half bar. However, this makes a piece sound too, well, systematic and unphrased (and it just sounds wrong because of the half-pedal thing). Putting the left pedal (by this I mean to say the one that makes notes sound dimmer) in combination with the right pedal (by this I mean the one that suspends notes), although removes the echo and volume from the pedalling, it also removes the clarity of the notes as well, which is another problem. Any ideas on what can be done here too please? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~Wobby~

The single most important aspect of phrasing is a musical sensibility. You need to be able to "listen to" what you are playing (as opposed to just "hearing" it), such that it makes musical sense. Consider someone reading aloud from a book. If they just allow the sentences to run together, with no inflections and ignoring punctuations - well, what would that sound like? Pretty weird, especially when their unconscious body hit the floor because they ran out of oxygen. Seriously, the difference between an adequate musician and a great one, is like the difference between me reading "Just William" and Martin Jarvis reading it. You need to bring it to life, and it's a very subtle art. That's why learning an instrument isn't just about pressing the right key for the right length of time.

As for your pedalling problem - how often is your piano tuned? It sounds like a job for the tuner. Get him/her to check it out. You cannot really hope to progress on an instrument that doesn't work as designed. For example, if you have to do this strange pedalling to make the music sound good on your piano, you're really going to struggle on another instrument.

[chocolatedog]

The problem with phrasing is that composers used it not just to show articulation, but also to show musical ideas. And some classical composers always seem to break the phrase on the barline, which doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a break in the sound. Likewise, sometimes Schubert uses a staccato dot on the low bass notes in a LH accompaniment, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to play it staccato - it draws your attention to it and means it is important. (Eg in the Rosamunde Variations, if the LH were played as marked it would sound a bit funny.) So sometimes the performer has to be careful about just how literally he or she takes the phrasemarks.

Not sure about the pedalling question, except that pedalling isn't a magical formula - the balance between the hands (melody and accompaniment) also has to be good to make the marked pedalling work properly, and again composers' pedal marks aren't always accurate either. And as pianos have changed, some pedalling marks have to be taken with a lorry-load of salt!!!

Sorry I can't be more help!

[carol*piano]

Not sure about the pedalling question, except that pedalling isn't a magical formula - the balance between the hands (melody and accompaniment) also has to be good to make the marked pedalling work properly, and again composers' pedal marks aren't always accurate either. And as pianos have changed, some pedalling marks have to be taken with a lorry-load of salt!!!

Good points chocolatedog - I will be using them for justification when I am altering things again (as I do quite a lot!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[SteveHopwood]

If you cannot naturally feel the phrasing, Wobby, then you need help from a good teacher. There is little that the rest of us can write that will help.

One tip; lines over piano music rarely indicate phrases. Actually, I am often not sure what they do indicate. As cd says, they often indicate units within the phrase in Classical period music. Goodness only knows why Classical composers felt the need to include them; it is obvious from the rhythmic elements where each unit lies.

As for Romantic music, composers appear to add lines over the top of notes at random - no help at all in devining the start and end of a longer phrase. Rather like this sentence, a phrase is made up of smaller blocks - sometimes clearly marked and obvious whilst others are less so.

Another tip; it is not necessary to physically stop the sound and have a gap in between phrases when playing the piano. Singers and wind players will do this to allow breathing; pianists do not need to. We have four methods of indicating the start of a new phrase:
* alter the tone at the start of the new one.
* allow a slightly longer gap between the notes that constitute the end of one phrase and the start of another.
* tonal gradation - a 3 bar cresc followed by a 2 bar dim outlines a 4 bar phrase quite neatly.
* slow down the end of the phrase and resume the new one at the 'correct' speed


That is all a bit cut-and-dried. Really, we use combinations of all the above as sounds best in the context of the piece and the style in which it was composed. That is where a good teacher will step in awake your mind to the possibilities.

Steve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wobby]

Thanks for the advice everyone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm sort of working on phrasing with my teacher already, it's just that I wanted advice on the various ways to emphasise phrasing. It's just when it comes to working on interpretation of pieces now where it begins to become a lot more difficult; I'm much better at the techinical aspects...

~Wobby~