Intermediate Violin Intonation?, grade 5-6 Options

[AuroraViolin]

I know I've asked a question about this before, but this time..

What level of accuracy is expected at grade 5-6 level? Obviously I'm trying to get my intonation as near perfect as I can, but for the minute I'm attempting to assess my level when it comes to intonation as it currently stands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

[jojo]

I know I've asked a question about this before, but this time..

What level of accuracy is expected at grade 5-6 level? Obviously I'm trying to get my intonation as near perfect as I can, but for the minute I'm attempting to assess my level when it comes to intonation as it currently stands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

when I did my grade 5 on the scales I 'just' passed, the comment from the examiner said:
significant intonation problems
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Looking back scales was the VERY first thing I did when I walked into the examination room, maybe I was just too 'rusty' and cold and nervous that day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
I did go onto scoring merit and distinction in my pieces and in the pieces the examiner commented that my intonation was good/solid! so go and figure why I messed up in the scales. (indeed now my teacher tells me my scales are even too good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif))

anyway, intonation was one thing the examiner commented on IN EVERY SINGLE LINE of my exam paper, negatively in the scales but thankfully really well in everything else (even in the sightreading she commented on intonation!), so going from that I would imagine they really do give it quite a lot of importance.

that's my personal impression anyway....

I'm sure others will comment too

[Tassimo]

Looking back scales was the VERY first thing I did when I walked into the examination room, maybe I was just too 'rusty' and cold and nervous that day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I think that this is a very good point. When I have not warmed up enough everything is either slightly too flat or slightly too sharp, depending on my mood that day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) so doing scales first thing in an examination situation without having warmed up first might just cause a problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[AuroraViolin]

Thanks Jo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought it would be like that...

If, say, I was to play a piece and never quite be "spot on" but be consistently very close to being perfectly in tune, would this be acceptable? Or is it a case of, the intonation must be spot on for the notes of the grade, rather than general intonation improving as you go up the grades? Not sure that makes sense..

[jojo]

Thanks Jo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought it would be like that...

If, say, I was to play a piece and never quite be "spot on" but be consistently very close to being perfectly in tune, would this be acceptable? Or is it a case of, the intonation must be spot on for the notes of the grade, rather than general intonation improving as you go up the grades? Not sure that makes sense..

mmmmm,

intonation is one of those things you could argue about 'forever'

you could get a few 'avid violinists' in a room and they'll argue til the cows come home and never agree I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
you will always get someone to say that even Itzhak Perlman is not perfectly in tune all of the time, and actually he probably isn't.

so you can't say you are always perfectly in tune 'really'

Let's say that you should be generally always with a good rounded intonation and only the very odd few slips and the slips should only be very minor slips.

It is impossible to explain on here precisely what could be acceptable I guess. You should be guided by your teacher (I think I remember you have a teacher? do you?).

I would say, but please teachers on this board correct me that by grade 5 your intonation really should be quite secure, and anything more than one or two little slips will end up against you.

[AuroraViolin]

Thanks Jo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought it would be like that...

If, say, I was to play a piece and never quite be "spot on" but be consistently very close to being perfectly in tune, would this be acceptable? Or is it a case of, the intonation must be spot on for the notes of the grade, rather than general intonation improving as you go up the grades? Not sure that makes sense..

mmmmm,

intonation is one of those things you could argue about 'forever'

you could get a few 'avid violinists' in a room and they'll argue til the cows come home and never agree I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
you will always get someone to say that even Itzhak Perlman is not perfectly in tune all of the time, and actually he probably isn't.

so you can't say you are always perfectly in tune 'really'

Let's say that you should be generally always with a good rounded intonation and only the very odd few slips and the slips should only be very minor slips.

It is impossible to explain on here precisely what could be acceptable I guess. You should be guided by your teacher (I think I remember you have a teacher? do you?).

I would say, but please teachers on this board correct me that by grade 5 your intonation really should be quite secure, and anything more than one or two little slips will end up against you.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) You're right. Ok, back to the tuner I go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
I think I'm close to the right level but it's tricky to measure it I guess.

I've just pm-ed you about the lessons scenario (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ill.gif) But yep, I do have a teacher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[aesir22]

Even after 20-30 minutes my intonation sucks lol. I just have to hope on exam day I am having one of my good days!

[jessy]

In my experience as a teacher, my pupils fare better with examiners who are string players, presumably because they understand the difficulties. Others have been very picky about intonation when the slips were very slight indeed.

By grade 5-6 I think intonation should be (getting) extremely good, particularly if you're to make sense of some modern pieces where being a little bit out can make the whole thing fall apart. Out of tune violin playing doesn't make for a very pleasing performance, after all!

[jojo]

In my experience as a teacher, my pupils fare better with examiners who are string players, presumably because they understand the difficulties. Others have been very picky about intonation when the slips were very slight indeed.

thanks Jessy, my examiner was an 'harpsichord' player (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[icklechick]

In my experience as a teacher, my pupils fare better with examiners who are string players, presumably because they understand the difficulties. Others have been very picky about intonation when the slips were very slight indeed.

thanks Jessy, my examiner was an 'harpsichord' player (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I've found that too - I had one examiner mention intonation in every section of a Grade 2 pupil's exam - when she was generally really secure with her intonation. I accompanied her pieces, and she was much more in tune than the vast majority of Grade 2's I've accompanied - but the examiner marked her really low for imprecisions in intonation.

I've also had a Grade 6 pass with distinction even when slips in intonation were mentioned on the mark sheet.

[jessy]

In my experience as a teacher, my pupils fare better with examiners who are string players, presumably because they understand the difficulties. Others have been very picky about intonation when the slips were very slight indeed.

thanks Jessy, my examiner was an 'harpsichord' player (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I'm sure they're not all like this, but I did have a young grade 5 pupil I accompanied who had super intonation, and ever other line of the comments related to intonation, which in this case I thought particularly unfair. Shifts were very good, fluent bowing, all the things required, and all the examiner really wrote about was intonation - since I was in there, I know it was good, so it almost seemed as if he was looking for something to say! This one case sticks with me because the pupil deserved at least a merit, if not a distinction, being technically and musically very secure and also for getting so much gradation of tone & dynamic contrast out of a 1/2 size violin, but the pieces were marked very low, intonation being the only real criticism. The examiner in this case was a wind player.

Yet other pupils who have been examined by string players (I always Google my examiners though I don't let my pupils know this or, more importantly, the result of my Googling!) have fared better, with credit given for the difficulties they have mastered for the relevant grades.

[
[/quote]

I've found that too - I had one examiner mention intonation in every section of a Grade 2 pupil's exam - when she was generally really secure with her intonation. I accompanied her pieces, and she was much more in tune than the vast majority of Grade 2's I've accompanied - but the examiner marked her really low for imprecisions in intonation.

I've also had a Grade 6 pass with distinction even when slips in intonation were mentioned on the mark sheet.
[/quote]

And that makes me feel better - it's the sort of thing that leaves me wondering if I'm paranoid!

[delicato]

Hmmmm back to intonation! I think that doing the aural is really important for good intonation. I am sure, if they failed you for bad intonation - then there may be a lot more fails in exam. I think you just need to work on getting it as best as you can ---- no good worrying about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

[lilly763]

Hmmmm back to intonation! I think that doing the aural is really important for good intonation. I am sure, if they failed you for bad intonation - then there may be a lot more fails in exam. I think you just need to work on getting it as best as you can ---- no good worrying about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

Hmm... I don't think I agree. Being able to sing back a bassline and identify cadences seems more complicated than working on intonation, which is really about intervals.

[AuroraViolin]

Thanks for your input everyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

OK, so if a piece at the grade 5 level was completely correct rhythmically, had a reasonable amount of dynamic contrast and there was some emotion put into it but there was some dodgy intonation, would it pass? Is it actually possible to get a merit to distinction mark on a piece if the intonation is the only factor that is a bit suspect?

[icklechick]

Thanks for your input everyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

OK, so if a piece at the grade 5 level was completely correct rhythmically, had a reasonable amount of dynamic contrast and there was some emotion put into it but there was some dodgy intonation, would it pass? Is it actually possible to get a merit to distinction mark on a piece if the intonation is the only factor that is a bit suspect?

Yep, it'd probably pass - whether it'd get a merit or distinction would be up to the individual examiner - as I said, I've had one pass with distinction with fairly frequent slips in intonation - and one pass Grade 2 with a lower mark than I expected because of slips in intonation that were hardly worth mentioning.