Disorganised Clergy, How Do You Solve a Problem Like a Vicar? Options

[mel2]

You can have months notice of the hymns only to have a delinquent Rector decide on a change in the middle of a service when he is impervious to frantic head shakes, fist shakes, throat-slitting gestures etc.

Once you accept that until you reach ARCO level you will be made to look an incompetent fool at least once a week, you become more relaxed about being bowled a googly and you learn to return it in kind; either very slowly or appallingly badly. So what? It is a blow to the pride, admittedly, because we all like to make a reasonable job of it but if they are going to do the dirty and drop you in it, they must live with the result! Fortunately, mistakes on the organ seldom have fatal consequences.

[Digby]

I first played the organ as a teenager and back then they only ever asked when they were short so I always agreed under the proviso that I chose the hymns, but then it wasnt' a paid job and I was doing it as a favour.

[Swell Box]

You can have months notice of the hymns only to have a delinquent Rector decide on a change in the middle of a service when he is impervious to frantic head shakes, fist shakes, throat-slitting gestures etc.

Once you accept that until you reach ARCO level you will be made to look an incompetent fool at least once a week, you become more relaxed about being bowled a googly and you learn to return it in kind; either very slowly or appallingly badly. So what? It is a blow to the pride, admittedly, because we all like to make a reasonable job of it but if they are going to do the dirty and drop you in it, they must live with the result! Fortunately, mistakes on the organ seldom have fatal consequences.

That is all very true Mel, but why do 'they' (the clergy) find it so difficult to give a few days advance notice, when the end result will be better for everyone?

We did have one cleric, a lovely chap (now long retired), who would completely forget what he was talking about mid sermon, but being a keen singer he was actually quite well organised in the music department.

What troubles me more is that the organist/pianist is always the one left looking like a fool, and I have never yet heard a cleric apologise publicly, and admit that the organist only knew about the music five minutes before the service. That's OK when you are as old and cynical as me, and have developed a tough hide, but it is hardly encouraging newcomers into the fold; and as we all know, there are not too many youngsters queuing up to play the church organ nowadays.

SB

[BerkshireMum]

I have to say, our minister is wonderful about giving notice of hymns. I usually play for our early service on the first Sunday of the month, for which the Roland is used, and I do find some of the modern hymns a bit tricky. Not only does he give me at least 3 days notice, but he will submit a list with at least 2 more hymns than he'll actually use, so that I can ask to be excused the most difficult ones!

Some of the local preachers are another matter. Recently, one sent me some words for a hymn, but no tune. I rang to ask which tune he would like, to be informed that he didn't have a tune for it, and couldn't I find one! It was a rather unusual metre, but Google came to the rescue and I discovered it was in a URC hymnbook - good job I know a few URC people here and could beg a book!

I'm sorry for your son, Swell Box, but he's at an age when he'll learn fast, and I'm sure it won't be long until he can sightread most hymns which might be dropped in his lap.

[Barry Williams]

I deplore the idea that anyone, however, skilled, should sight -read hymns.

Hymns (and choruses) are a very important part of the service. They need careful preparation. Some hymn tunes, such as Ladywell, Wolvercote and Cuddesdon need rehearsal for any player who has not seen them before. Equally, some of the rhythms in choruses need practice if they are to have any conviction in performance.

Clergy and lay readers, of whatever denomination, who demand that hymns are read at sight should simply be told that ther congregation deserves (and will get) better.

These appalling accounts merely encourage organists not to offer themselves to play for services. After all, playing for a service is difficult enough, without the added stress of trying to sight-read when there is no need to do so.

Barry Williams

[Dulciana]

I agree with Barry and Swell Box. They really need to get their act together in a lot of cases, and they won't do so if we don't just say 'no' sometimes. I've done it! And my sight reading's not too bad. But as Barry said, they deserve better than to listen to me sight reading. Everything is better with practice, even if all the notes are in the right places. So I just refuse to do it - and it works.

[mel2]

I completely agree that such behaviour is deplorable and very much to be discouraged but when you have a dyed-in-the-wool anarchist leading the service there isn't much you can do if they change tack half way through giving you no opportunity to object without seeming to heckle during divine service. (I expect they do it to cover some error of their own!)

A final check prior to the service that all is as per the running order is the only recommendation I can make to SB junior, with an assurance that he will go home and leave them in the lurch if there is any alteration. I wish I had done this in my earlier days and now seethe when I recall some of the outrages I have countenanced because I was too much of a wimp to stand my ground - mainly from a lay person who sat in a position of honour in gown and hood simply because he had been around since the Reformation.

[Swell Box]

- mainly from a lay person who sat in a position of honour in gown and hood simply because he had been around since the Reformation.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think you owe me a new keyboard Mel. I should have known better than to have taken a mouthful of coffee before reading one of your posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But what gets me is that we are not asking our clergy to do anything extra; just to do it a few days earlier than they otherwise would so that everyone knows what they are doing in good time.

We have offered to pick the hymns on several occasions, but this has been refused on the grounds that they like to choose the hymns to suit their sermon - which presumably they have some idea about in advance?

I must say that they are usually quite laid back about changing hymns if it happens that they have picked one with six sharps in it or something, but on this occasion the service booklet had already been printed a week beforehand with the hymns in it, so why couldn't we have been e-mailed a copy? I suppose that is too obvious.

We also had the benefit of a PowerPoint presentation yesterday, complete with responses, as it seems these had been omitted from the service book. It just didn't occur to the cleric that there was only one small patch of white wall that could be used as a projector screen, and less than half of the congregation could see it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

SB

[Dulciana]

Maybe they're picked for their godliness rather than their pragmatism. Their hearts are probably in the right places - but they all benefit from a little friendly nudging on the practical side of things. (With apologies to any clerics present... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) A musical one is a great boon.

[Vox Humana]

A useful opening gambit might be to explore with the offending cleric what the problem is that prevents him getting the hymn numbers to your son in timely advance (he may actually not have a reasonable excuse at all). Then impress on him the difficulty it creates and try to find a way round whatever problem he has so that he gives the choosing of hymns a higher priority than he does at present. Manoeuvre him into a position where he realises and acknowledges that he is being unreasonable.

[Susie]

What troubles me more is that the organist/pianist is always the one left looking like a fool, and I have never yet heard a cleric apologise publicly, and admit that the organist only knew about the music five minutes before the service. ....SB

Exactly - I'm capable of making enough mistakes of my own, without having clerical errors added to them.

Whenever I'm subbing on the organ, I always make it abundantly clear in my emails about hymns that any changes or decisions have to be final a week beforehand to allow me time to practise - and I explain that it's me playing rather than my OH who's a "proper" organist.

And I think you should make the position clear to your cleric as well SB - don't dress it up with humour. Be straight and clear - our lot are always going on about how the youth are the church of the future. If your son is willing and able to play for services, he deserves the respect of having hymns organised a few days beforehand (or however long is required), otherwise he'll be put off for life. I have no fear now of sending emails to anyone concerned and I keep pestering until I get a reply, otherwise, I choose the hymns myself and that's final.

I do know that the clergy (and others) leave music arrangements til the last minute with no understanding that organists have the rest of life to contend with too. We had a funeral last week, where my OH practised all the required hymns and selected voluntaries with care, and practised those too. Then we were told at the last minute that there was to be a piper playing the coffin in and out of church, so some of his time and effort was all for nothing. Grrr.

[Dulciana]

We nearly had a disaster at our Harvest service which resulted in me calling the clergyman an 'idiot' in front of the visiting preacher! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) He got the message and rectified the problem!

I can just picture the scene... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

And as for what happened to Susies's other half - been there too. Practising something and giving attention to detail and going that extra mile for something that ends up superfluous to requirements is not funny.

[mrbouffant]

Then we were told at the last minute that there was to be a piper playing the coffin in and out of church, so some of his time and effort was all for nothing. Grrr.

Frustrating yes but surely he can recycle them another time when appropriate? Therefore to say the 'effort was all for nothing' is rather dramatic - typical of many organists to make a mountain out of a molehill?

[Susie]

Then we were told at the last minute that there was to be a piper playing the coffin in and out of church, so some of his time and effort was all for nothing. Grrr.

Frustrating yes but surely he can recycle them another time when appropriate? Therefore to say the 'effort was all for nothing' is rather dramatic - typical of many organists to make a mountain out of a molehill?

No, to be fair, as sub-organist, that was my comment. My OH is very happy playing the organ, he'd do it all day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) if he didn't have to make a living doing other things. I suppose I took the view that I have when I have to learn music for church - it's a bit of an effort when I have other pressing demands on my time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Swell Box]

Sorry for the pun, but it seems I have struck something of a common chord with this post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

One thing that always strikes me is that clergy are always complaining about how busy they are, and how they don't have time to organise anything properly. (I have lost count of the number of PCC meetings I have attended where matters are carried forward month after month because the clergy have done nothing about them). We are also told about how much work our [paid] Parish Secretary has to do. And yet, the church (certainly the C of E), seems to have little regard for the time of unpaid volunteers, many of whom have full time jobs themselves, or are in full time education. Anyone who has had to apply for a faculty will know exactly what I mean! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) I am sure that if the church authorities had to pay commercial rates for this work they would very soon make things easier.

Of course we do all of this willingly, but it would be nice if the clergy would understand that our free time too is limited, and is every bit as valuable as theirs.

SB