Peris And Their Pupils Options

[Violinia]

A close friend who is a flute peri in several schools tells me she has email contact with a couple of her pupils so she can send them links to the sites of msuic courses etc etc. One of them, a 14-year-old boy, sometimes sends her jokey emails and she sends jokey ones back.

She mentioned it to her husband and the husband thinks she is crossing a line into a place where she could start favouring that child; in other words he basically thinks it's inappropriate - and she doesn't. She's mentioned it to the Head of Music in that school who thinks it's fine. My friend's husband thinks she should also mention it to the school Head to make doubly sure it's fine. There's no question (as far as I can tell) that there's any danger of any untoward behaviour arising out of this, and she's positive the boy doesn't have a crush on her or anything like that.

I've told my friend that if the Head of Music knows about it and has OK'ed it then it's probably fine and her husband is worrying unnecessarily. I tend to be a bit like her in that I form good easy-going relationships with my students, both home and school, because I think students learn better when they feel you like them.
I think the husband is going a bit over the top thinking my friend should have to talk about it with the Head, particularly when the Head of Music says it's fine.

What do the peris here, or anyone else think?

Violinia

[Pudding]

My daughter has excellent relationships with her Tutors. One private the other although through school we pay direct. The tutor in school is male, my daughter gets on well with him. She feels comfortable ringing him up for help and visiting his house during the holidays. They joke and have a laugh. She will give him a hug at Christmas.

She has recently moved schools and he has taught her in both, he was advised at the old school as where all the other staff not to touch pupils in any way. They had great fun Waltzing around the school hall in three time with their teacher. Such things as dancing around the room would help those who where struggling with their counting and rythm but it was all stopped.

I can see that people want to protect themselves from false alligations, but I feel also the whole thing is out of hand. If she isn't doing something right and needs to be re positioned, it is easier to move pupil into the correct position rather than have to explain it.
I think it is great when student and teacher get on well, they obviously both feel comfortable emailing one another. If however the line gets crossed it can be dealt with if it should happen. Untill then I can see nothing wrong with emailing work or pleasure.
In all walks of life we get on with some people better than others. It is no different in the classroom. Rightly or wrongly.

It just takes one teacher to inspire a child for life. I think it is fine.

[Roger]

It's unfortunate and a bit sad really that we live in an age where simple innocent exchanges between a teacher and pupil can be taken out of context.

The problem is that there have been so many reported cases in the newspapers of teachers having inappropriate relationships with their 13/14/15 year old students and I guess this is what first comes to mind in peoples thinking when such instances come to light.

I can understand, on one hand, some of this lady's husband's concerns and on the other that he may be over reacting to just platonic exchanges and familiarity between his wife and the 14 year old boy. It's difficult to know just where to draw the line in trying to maintain a degree of appropriateness and not seeming un-cooperative and unfriendly to the lad.

[jennyfur]

I know lots of friends that have this relationshups with their pupil One friend in particular chats on MSN with her pupil but from what i've seen, i think it's benefitical. I saw them in a concert recently, they did an excellent duet and seemed like they were enjoying themselves too.

It's unfortunate and a bit sad really that we live in an age where simple innocent exchanges between a teacher and pupil can be taken out of context.

Totally agree. It's sad that some generally good teacher/pupil relationshps are frowned upon

[sarah-flute]

I get the distinct impression from what some of the teenagers on the board have said that it's not that uncommon for teachers to be in email contact with students these days...

In all walks of life we get on with some people better than others. It is no different in the classroom. Rightly or wrongly

True.

[possom]

Not quite the same thing but similar topic:-

I picked up one of my singing pupils the other day to take her to my teacher so that we compare notes on how she's doing (very useful for her and me). My husband (a football coach) has been on a child protection course and one of the rules for him is that they are not allowed at any time to be alone with a child without someone else around (ie in the car) and to be careful (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) It is really sad to think we have to think like this nowadays but also a parent and hearing what we do in the media these days I can understand it as well. I also have pupils that I email (the parents know we exchanged email addresses) usually about music sites and congratulations about festivals, exams etc. I don't see a problem here as long as the parents are aware, it is then a parental responsibility to oversee email messages if they are worried.

[shimmer]

I think that we should be encouraging good relationships between music teachers and their pupils. So many teenagers are completely negative about their school teachers, they never seem to have a good word to say, that I think that being on 'friend' terms with a teacher is good. It is so sad that in today's society you can do so little in regard toteacher/pupil relationships. For example, my littlest sister is at playgroup, and if she falls over and cuts her knee, the playgroup leaders are not allowed to give her a hug!!
I get on really well with my music teachers, at the end of my lessons we always have a chat about general stuff and I often visit outside of leson times. My flute teacher took me into cambridge last year to try out some intermediate flutes, she was much more useful than either of my parents and I was fine with it.
I can understand why we have boundaries regarding teacher/pupil relationships but I think they are really begining to verge on ridiculous.

[Emma C]

Child protection issues are such a minefield for all of us these days. Tonight at Youth Music Choir one of the boys - about 9 with hyperactivity and concentration problems, wanted to sit on my knee for some of the rhythm and clapping games. Immediate reaction - this is an absolute 'no no' but I left him (I've had an enhanced discolsure, child protection training, and there were two other adults there as well). It kept him quiet and still, and it helped him to concentrate and get much more from the activity. Then later on one little girl (about 7) was playing with my skirt because she said the silk felt nice. I left her for about a minute and removed myself from the situation. Thankfully my skirt was lined so I wansn't showing anything more that my knees to the rest of the group! Children will be children, but we need to protect them, and ourselves.

The key thing is really to be aware of the appropriate boundaries and to avoid any situations when something might be 'mis-interpreted'. I guess if the little boy made a habit of wanting to sit on my knee that would be one thing, and I would probably put a stop to it, but on this occasion it was fine. I guess doing a quick mental 'risk assessment' and making senseible decisions according to the circumstances is essential. Realistically, though, I guess most parents would just want us to be sensible, and if you're unsure, have a chat with them first.

[organist_katy]

It's sad that because there are a few weirdos out there, everyone else has to take care not to be mistaken for one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) There were issues with some idiots when the organist from my church took me on an organ course which was only in the afternoon for a few hours. He gave me a lift into town and then sat with me as we listened to the person running it (and then 'volunteered' me!! Grrrr...) But since he's 10 years older than me some people were like 'Why didn't one of your parents go?' Answer: 'because neither of them play the organ and so would have been much less useful....'

[stevensfo]

My son is 13 and also has an excellent rapport with his trumpet teacher, though he's far too busy with his Ipod/guitar/books/computer games to actually send emails to her. I know her and trust her well enough not to worry if they started exchanging funny emails.

However, I do think that a teacher should always behave in a very professional way and avoid getting too 'friendly' with their students.

I'm not a music teacher, but if I was, I would prefer not to correspond with children by email -unless it was an occasional request for information.

Steve

[dcmbarton]

I keep in contact with a number of students via e-mail and/or text message. They and I are from a generation which favours these over the telephone. It's much easier to issue an e-mail reminder etc. than it would be to telephone round 26 pupils. Parents seem to accept that this is OK and there isn't an issue, and the majority of time they are copied the e-mail at the same time. I'm not going to stop doing this just because of a small minority in our society who may thing there was something more sinister going on.

David

p.s. on the P.C. issue, I hope you've all been out to buy the single of the Radio 4 UK Theme which reached number 29 in the chart last weekend. Another example of the P.C. maniacs at work!

[oboist]

I occasionally correspond with my sixth form pupils by e-mail but only on things like lessons, music to purchase etc. Never jokes, friendly exchanges etc. Business all the way - I would be anxious about doing anything else. I would not expect to deal by e-mail with a younger pupil.

Child Protection is necessary but it is an increasing pain too. Once upon a time if I wanted to demonstrate breathing I'd put my hand on my student's diaphragm and show them what I meant and let them feel mine working. Never now. I understand dance teachers are really struggling to know how to teach good positioning now that they cannot physically correct anything for a pupil - ie hands off.

I abhor child abuse and would never want to see any child harmed but I think, like many other things in life, we have gone a little too overboard in some cases now.

[Helen]

My flute teacher at school always used to correct our posture by moving us and the diaphragm thing that oboist mentionned; and no one ever had a problem with it.

Child Protection is necessary but it is an increasing pain too.

I fully agree. At brownies we had a girl who had sprained or twisted an ankle or something while we were playing games on the field behind the church, but the first aider was in the church hall, and what was I supposed to do other than carry her to the first aider?? Say "yes dear, you'll have to hop a bit since you can't walk" ?? And trying to tell that to an increasingly hysterical 7 year old girl?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)






Sorry for straying into the teacher forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[crazy cow]

I get the distinct impression from what some of the teenagers on the board have said that it's not that uncommon for teachers to be in email contact with students these days...

i've had email contact with some of my teachers - after our school production in december i emailed photos to quite a few people, teachers included. i've just been off school for two days last week and if i hadn't been able to email my teachers then i would have been stressing big-time about the coursework and it probably wouldn't have got in on time. if all outside hours contact was cut i think that would be a very bad thing.

However, I do think that a teacher should always behave in a very professional way and avoid getting too 'friendly' with their students.

i disagree (sorry!)
i get on really well with some of my teachers, we have a chat and a laugh and it's probably the sort of relationship that you would be counting as 'too 'friendly''. i personally think it's great getting on with your teachers because it makes the time you have with them more enjoyable to start with! and the feedback i get from teachers i know more than others is often more useful to me - they seem to be able to be more honest and offer some really good advice and i'm not worried about going to them for help, whereas with some other teachers who i don't know as well, they don't really help explaining what they mean as much or i don't feel i can go and ask them things as easily. and then sometimes they say nice things only to go and change their minds later on, which seems to be in case they upset me or something! but i'd rather be given honest comments and some positive advice rather than someone pretending it's all good and then realising they have to be honest when it's too late to do much about it.

I understand dance teachers are really struggling to know how to teach good positioning now that they cannot physically correct anything for a pupil - ie hands off.

it is a bit of a problem i think. i go dancing and luckily our dance school hasn't moved into the PC brigade yet - it's just not possible to run a school like that. some parents sit in on lessons and so can take their kids to the loos, help get them changed into other uniform and change shoes, blow noses, give hugs etc, but there are around 30 kids in the youngest class and it just isn't feasible to have a parent for every kid in the lesson - plus a lot of the parents go for a cuppa or nip up to the shops during the lesson. it means that it's not too PC - we help change shoes, take kids to the loos, occasionally have to help them change, give them hugs etc. some people might not agree with it but any other way would be unrealistic - what are we meant to do? wait till they go to the loo, get their knickers and leotards twisted up and then just leave them like that? i don't think it's wrong and the parents know what goes on and they're all perfectly happy to leave their kids with us. i trust my dance teachers immensely and i know that they would never let anyone near the kids if it would put them in any danger. i think the parents know this too so that's probably why they're fine with leaving the kids - they can always sit in on lessons if they want to, so it's not like any secrecy going on or anything.
my dance class are luckily all a bit too old to be bothered by the PC rubbish - we were taught dancing with teachers changing postures and correcting positions, to stop now would be stupid. our teachers would never do anything to hurt any of us and i'm fine with them altering positions - i wouldn't want to injure myself just because they're not allowed to help us or break a few bones if they're not allowed to support us doing pointe work and the like

*phew*
sorry, ranting over! just this PC stuff drives me mad!

[shimmer]

I understand dance teachers are really struggling to know how to teach good positioning now that they cannot physically correct anything for a pupil - ie hands off.

My teacher is always correcting us. If our arm position is wrong she will take our wrist and move them to the right place. Today for example, I was doing some pointe work (I have only just started) and I held her hands to march across the room (great for building up strength/balance).
The breathing thing with music teachers really bugs me. if I'm struggling to get a breathing exercise there's not a lot my teacher can do about it.
Even I have to be cautious as I teach a small girl the recorder. I always feel guilty if I have to move her hands etc which I shouldn't do, she is only 6 1/2 years younger than me and older than my youngest sister. Also, when I started teacheing her, her parents asked if one of my parents wanted to come for the first time as I would be teaching in the girls' house with her father often at home. Her father is a lovely man, and very enthusiastic about his daughter's music and I think its such a shame that he should be worried about me not being 'safe'.